2 Kindergarten classes, which one is best?

lawsjl

Forums Regular
Season's Greetings!

I have decided to enroll Phoebe who is 8 months in a kindergarten class. She knows most of the basics already. However, we certainly need some tweaking in some areas. My reason for this is for the socialization, and to have distraction with the basics. Presently it is just Phoebe and I most of the time.

The first class....
Petco - 6 weeks 1 hour sessions. Positive reinforcement, taught in the store, 3 dogs max in class and covers all that I want and a few things that we need help with.

The second class...
Training facility/school - 6 weeks 1 hour sessions. ***here is where I get a little miffed....covers all of the above, but when I asked about positive reinforcement the instructor said well actually both positive and negative. I asked her to explain what she meant...She explained there is no abusive treatment at all. An example would be if a Gentle Leader was being used on a dog that pulls when walking that would be negative if the dog hits there nose inside it. She described it as the dog learning to do what is expected from the owner on the owners terms not when the dog feels like it. Redirecting is negative too, it is asking the dog to do something it doesn't want to do. I asked her about popping the leash as an example and she said no that is punishment. I never thought of any of the above as negative other than popping the leash.

Should I be confused? I am :confused2:

I have to ask more questions would love some guidance as to what more to ask..or to run, or if it sounds good.

Petco or Dog Training school with more questions?


Price isn't a factor as they are about the same.

Thoughts,
Thanks so very much in advance,
Lisa & Phoebe
 
I am not sure what your second trainer means either. Positive is NOT permissive. It is not negative.
Why don't you ask to go and sit in the class and see how you feel about that training. I am bit wary about Petco classes, although 3 dogs per class sounds great.
 
Great Article

I am still confused though....maybe I have to read it earlier when it hasn't been such a busy day.

I recently watched a Kathy Sado seminar on DVD and she explained all of the different training. I get lost in the jargon and confused with the methods.

That is a great idea to watch a class. I will see if I can do that. Thanks so much :smile2:
 
I do not like too much lingo and really it is not important IMHO
I love Kathy Sdao but she too tends to get lost in jargon. If you get Karen Pryor "Don't shoot the dog" it is one of the best books I know about dog training. I also love free articles of Susanne Clothier you can google them at flyindogpress. My guru dog trainer is Susan Garrett, she has terrific blog and runs on line classes, right now she runs Puppy peaks- great clips what she does with her new puppy.
 
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I am still confused though....maybe I have to read it earlier when it hasn't been such a busy day.

I recently watched a Kathy Sado seminar on DVD and she explained all of the different training. I get lost in the jargon and confused with the methods.

That is a great idea to watch a class. I will see if I can do that. Thanks so much :smile2:

Basically this is it in a nutshell

positive reinforcement-the trainers provides something desirable to the dog to strengthen its behavior. ie treats,playing,verbal praise or permission to do something break a stay or chase a rabbit. Good thing happen

Negative reinforcement- the training removes something the dog doesn't like to strengthen behavior. ie collar pressure when a dog sits, ecollar stim when it moves away from an invisible fence. gentle leader loosening when the dog is not pulling. Bad things stop.

Positive punishment- the trainer provides something the dog doesn't like to decrease the behavior. ie collar pop, squirt of water.Bad things happen

Negative punishment-trainer takes away something the dog wants to decrease a behavior. ie time out, removing a toy, with hold a toy. Good things stop.

Clicker trainers dwell in the world of positive reinforcement and negative punishment, with very little negative reinforcement(usually when using a gentle leader) and little positive punishment if any. Same is true of lure reward training.

Compulsion based training is equally amount of all 4 with slightly more positive punishment and less negative punishment, (removal of rewards)
 
I should point out that it is impossible to use only positive reinforcement because if it is strengthening one behavior(wanted) it is decreasing the unwanted behavior and is thus negative punishment for the unwanted behavior. You could interept many actions in dog training either way depending on how you look at it.

Behavior does not live in a vacuum. I think the key for a class is the lack of physical aversives.
 
Justicemom is correct (as always :biggrin2:).

Based on what you wrote, I would suggest going with the training facility. However, I agree with the people who suggested you observe a class - that's the best way to get a feel for the trainer/environment.
 
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