Aggression & Dominance

[KeepingAugust]

Okay... So I am having some pretty unsual issues with my eleven week old Sheltie, Oliver. He has an incredibly headstrong nature about him, he has to dominate everything - except me, he seems to know better there - and he can be aggressive at times.

In the course of just a few weeks, he went after one of my cats who swatted him with claws - self defense, I might add, I saw Oliver pulling on the cat... And he latched on to my cat just below the eye! I had to pull him off. Just the other day, Oliver was wrestling with Twist, who is three times his size, and Twist must have gotten a little rough and Oliver snapped and went at him viciously! Teeth bared, growling and snarling, and latched onto Twist's neck. I had to once again pull him off, this time being more careful, as he was so riled up, he was whipping around trying to bite me too.

I do not like this behavior at all, shocking for a Sheltie, even more so for such a young puppy! I wont let him near my sons, for fear that they might accidentally upset him and get bit. I chase my cats off whenever they come too close, and when I cannot be watching him with my other dogs, I crate him for everyone's safety.

My vet will not neuter a puppy until they are 16 weeks, unfortunately. So neutering him is out for another month... Any ideas on what would cause his disposition to be such? Advice on how to work with it? I talked with another Sheltie breeder, and she advised taking him back. I cannot seem to get myself to do it, though...

I might also add that he urinates and defecates where ever he feels like it, with no regard to anything. He KNOWS that he is to potty outside, he does so every time I take him out, but he will just pee on the cats water and food mat, the kitchen floor, the carpet... He pees and poops in his crate, plays in it, and eats it at times, too. Sigh.

Not having much fun with this puppy right now!

 

[Justicemom]

Here is what I would do. Ember was the same way. When he has these temper tantums, as quickly as you can and as gentlely as you can put him into a settle position. That is flat on his side with legs pointing away from you. Hold his front legs in one hand and his rears in the other. Hold his neck down with your forearm. If he screams( and I guarntee he will) do not let him up until he calms down.

Don't not say anything and do this with no emotion. As soon as he calms down praise him and release.

You need to practice this everyone day. Work up to 2 minute settles. He needs to learn he is not in charge. If he is this way at 11 weeks, you will be in big trouble if he doesn't learn this. I would also do restrained sits, restained lifts. Sit on your knees hold Oliver on the floor between your knees and hold his body against yours with one hand and his head with the other. Let him relex and release. Restained lifts -pick him up with 1 arm under his head wrapped over the chest and one under the rear wrapped over the back. Hold him off the ground so his legs dangle down. Hold until he stops struggling and then put him down. Practice every day.

Now some will say this is harsh. But this is a hard personality and it needs a firm hand. The key is firm but not crushing, no emotion if you are too emotional to do this ,work on it while you are calm.

Good luck Also if your are not in a puppy Kindergraden class get into one ASAP.

 

[Caro]

I agree - taking him to classes and learning to focus on your commands with other dogs around could be handy.

Just the other day, Oliver was wrestling with Twist, who is three times his size, and Twist must have gotten a little rough and Oliver snapped and went at him viciously! Teeth bared, growling and snarling, and latched onto Twist's neck. I had to once again pull him off, this time being more careful, as he was so riled up, he was whipping around trying to bite me too.

This is not uncommon play behavoiur for a sheltie - pretending they are ferocious. Mine play like this all the time and played this way as pups. The problem as pups tho is they do not have a good sense of the other dog so that's where you step in to teach him what sort of behaviour is too rough. I agree with Justicemum - reprimand calmly and without talking, if he is hyped up already telling him off or yelling will just hype him up more. I would recommend a short time-out every time he plays up. There was an interesting study recently showed dogs under 21 weeks don't understand human gestures. So you may need to make it pretty clear what you want.

A 3mth old pup is equivalent to a precocious 3-4 yr old human child. He is unlikely to be trying dominance and its unlikely to be due to hormones yet - but it does sound like he is being plain naughty and probably has waaaaay too much energy.

As for potty training - some dogs just take longer. And he may just be too wound up to go outside so piddles where he is. Maybe you could teach him to chase a ball and really run him ragged that way? It would also mean your kids could throw the ball to him and he could learn to interact with them without using the rough play.

 

[Justicemom]

I agree - taking him to classes and learning to focus on your commands with other dogs around could be handy.



This is not uncommon play behavoiur for a sheltie - pretending they are ferocious. Mine play like this all the time and played this way as pups. The problem as pups tho is they do not have a good sense of the other dog so that's where you step in to teach him what sort of behaviour is too rough.QUOTE]


This is a good point some puppies do play very hard and a lot of owners think they are being aggressive. It is always hard to tell over the internet. Steady older dogs can always help teach the youngsters. Definitely consider puppy classes.

Here is a picture of Diva and Grizz and Justice and Diva They are playing by the way.

 

[KeepingAugust]

To be perfectly honest, we do not have the time for puppy classes...

My husband works quality control at a local factory, and they rule our lives, literally. His schedule has been switched up to twelve days on, two days off a month through March - and his hours are such that I cannot enroll in a class because I have no one to leave my kids with. I do not have a babysitter, and have no clue how to locate one, as we are relatively new to this area, so I really am backed into a corner as far as that goes...

I've worked in behavior modification and obedience in years past, I was apprenticing under a trainer out of a kennel in Malibu back before I got pregnant. When I found out I was expecting, I let that all go, though I do regret it now... I do have some knowledge with me, though I would not call myself an expert by any means. I'm really thrown off by Oliver's behavior, as I have never dealt with this in such a young dog!

Anyway, I have been working obedience at home with both of them, I do have a large pack of my own that Oliver co-exists with, and I take him (and Twist) out whenever the opportunity arises - trips to PetSmart, trips to Home Depot, outings to the feed store. Stuff of that nature. My parents have 8 dogs of their own, so my Shelties have plenty of socialization opportunities!

I'm relieved to read that his behavior is not uncommon, though I must admit I have never owned a Sheltie that acted like this! It's new to me! As I am sure you all know, I have German Shepherds, and they play incredibly rough - teeth gnashing, snarling, and body slamming eachother into the house, LOL. I guess I just don't want him harming one of my cats, or one of my kids... I do want to teach him there is a time and a place - as well as the right playmate!

Thanks for the replies! I appreciate it!

 

[JessicaR]

he definitly could use some puppy classes! Also I want to ask how much exercise does he get and how often do you let him out to go potty? You might just need to wear him out some and take him out more often. At that age my pups went out every 30 minutes. I have a 3 1/2 month old boxer that plays very rough too, sometimes its hard to tell if he is playing or if he is fighting! I let the older dogs and cat disicipline the pup. If he gets to rough I would remove him from the other dogs and cat until he settles down.

I would not pin him!!! Alpha rolls is based on the misguided study of captive wolves, that the alpha wolf rolls the subordinate wolves to show dominance. This could be further from the truth. The subordinate wolf would willing roll on its back to the higher ranking wolf, not forced. The only reason one wolf would roll another wolf would be to kill it. Alpha rolls can cause fear aggression in dogs, who are not wolves and should not be treated as such.


What i would do is keep him attached to you at all times with a 6 foot leash. When he cannot be attached put him in his crate with a kong stuffed with food. Playing and eating his stool can be an indication of boredom. So make sure he gets plenty of physical and mental exercise. Oh and make sure the crate isn't too big. He should only have enough room to stand up, turn around, and lay down. If its too big he can just use one end as a toilet.

 

[Justicemom]

I would not pin him!!! Alpha rolls is based on the misguided study of captive wolves, that the alpha wolf rolls the subordinate wolves to show dominance. This could be further from the truth. The subordinate wolf would willing roll on its back to the higher ranking wolf, not forced. The only reason one wolf would roll another wolf would be to kill it. Alpha rolls can cause fear aggression in dogs, who are not wolves and should not be treated as such.

What I suggested is not an alpha roll. An alpha roll is violent and rolls the dog on to his back. People who alpha roll use emotion and get in the dogs face.
What i'm suggesting is sliding him down into the settle position. As I said it should be done calmly if can't be done without emotion in the heat of the moment work on it seperately. If done proper it will not cause fear. How ever if he is a puppy who thinks he is in charge he will protest.

 

[clancyh8sabby]

He is way to young to understand where to potty...Puppies can't hold it for very long...
I would be feeding him on a tight schedule and then make note of the times of day that he goes..how long after eating, playing, sleeping...you will soon see a pattern to when he needs to go.
He is too young to have free run of your home..the best way to get success with potty training is to not let him make a mistake..so if he isn't in his crate resting..he's some how tethered to you or very closely supervised..if he's on a leash or long line..you can quickly get him outside when you see he is looking for a place to potty...learn those signs...alot of times there will be sniffing and cirlcling...
I wouldn't do the alpha roll..but what was mentioned..holding until settleing...isn't a alpha roll..we practiced this in puppy class...we got them excited playing and then picked them up and held them til they settled down..and releasedthem saying "free"..we later added the command "settle"...This comes in quite handy...I can get mine to settle down pretty fast by just saying "settle" to them. Like was mentioned practice this when you are calm and relaxed..the more relaxed and calm you are..the faster your pup will relax.
I would guess either your pup didn't get "reprimanded" by his momma or other siblings and just hasn't learned his limits.
You can also do the "nothing in life is free" thing..basically he must say "please" to get anything he needs or wants...you decide how he says please...usually I have them do a sit and make eye contact with me..lengthening the time they must sit before they get what they want or need...At 11 weeks old I would start with just looking at you...or if he has learned the sit command..go with that...I had a instructor tell us..you can't get your puppy to do anything if you don't have his attention..so teaching him to look at you is very important... You can start this with a game...hold a treat in each hand (or a toy...I would prolly use a toy with your puppy..because you could transfer this into him getting a toy and getting his frustration out on a toy instead of the cat.. ) and stand with your arms straight out to your side..like branches of a tree...when puppy looks at your face...quickly give him a treat..then put your arms back out...puppy will soon learn if he looks at you..you stuff something good in his mouth....soon you can add a command for it..."look"..or whatever word works for you. Then when puppy is getting rowdy or naughty..you will be able to just say your word "look" and puppy will come to you and look at you..then you can redirect him to something other then the unwanted behaviour.
With the rough play with the cat and other animals in your house...I wouldn't be too quick to step in...let the cat swat him..he will learn faster what the cats limit is...I agree you should limit your young children ..I would never let young children be left alone with a puppy..for both their safety...

Both of mine can play pretty rough and if I didn't know better..I'd think someone was getting hurt...theres never been any blood shed...In fact Clancy is twice as big as Abby..and she cleans his clock more often then not...its usually Clancy that starts it too...gotta love a confident girl!! LOL

If you are concerned or not sure if your puppy is really aggressive or just a wild child in playing..get him to a good trainer or behaviourist..they will be able to see how he acts and tell you if there is reason for concern and help you further.

Julie
Clancy & Abby

 

[KeepingAugust]

In regards to the responses on his potty training issues...

For the record, I have owned dogs my entire life. I have been exposed to many different breeds, and I have fostered many dogs as well, and I have potty trained multiple, multiple dogs. I realize he is young and I am not a novice when it comes to potty training... What I have an issue with is his need to pee on everything, despite JUST coming back in from being outside doing business. He also pees on my cats items, which really bothers me. There is no need for that, and I am sorry, but that is NOT just him being a puppy and peeing because he cannot hold it. There is more to it than that... If he is "just being a puppy" than why does he search out my cats beds or food mats, and pee directly on those?

I've begun the NILIF training, actually. I've used it before with great results, so here's hoping!

 

[clancyh8sabby]

Ooooo...well..thats a whole nother thing!! Marking...claiming it all for him...
I've not had to deal with this..so I am no help at all!
I hope someone on here knows what to tell you...

Julie
Clancy & Abby