Barking, collar and fear

Ok,

Weighing in here.

1) Don't worry about the anaesthisia...we don't give it a second's thought when it comes to spay/neuter, teeth cleaning or other tests that our pups may require for other health reasons. You do what you gotta do. I've been through it a number of times. It's not our first choice, but better than not dealing with whatever the issue is.

2) My Indy is debarked, and he does not have a raspy, wheezy bark at all. He barks just like any other dog, just an octave or two quieter. Maybe that's abnormal, and maybe they did not do the job proper. Personally, I had not need to do it, but he came that way. But if it was an issue, I don't think I would hesitate, if the choice was what you are faced with.

3) I don't think you can reliably train your dog not to bark when you aren't around. I think you can teach "quiet", "settle" when you are there, but on their own, Sheltie's will bark.
 
If the biggest problem is barking in the yard reduce her access to the yard. I do this with mine - it was suggested to me by a vet behaviourist and I have since found many dog owners do this. Dogs dont need a lot of space if they are exercised regularly so dont worry about her not having much backyard.

I installed a wire fence which I can enlarge or reduce depending on how good or bad the barking is. Reducing their space (and restricting their view with shadecloth) does reduce the barking. It is a matter of limiting the opportunity to practice the bad behaviour.

She is still a teen so things will probably be at its worst. And they seem to go all silly and lessons seem to go out the window, but they do get better. Mine have gotten much better with age and at the moment have access to the whole yard (mainly so they can get to the shade) - I live in a body corporate so barking is a big problem.

Heres a link to a previous post with some pics of my makeshift dog run (and some pics of others.
http://www.sheltieforums.com/showthread.php?t=2864&highlight=compost

Sorry about the long post - I accidently deleted my last post so had to retype and haven't edited it in case I delete again.
 
danisgoat said:
Sporting dogs and herding dogs are a world of difference. The training techniques are not the same between the groups. Even within the herding group....there is a different way with training a Sheltie. They are almost overly sensitive.
Click to expand...

And yes I totally agree,which I did'nt add to that post.A whole world of differance.
I would never in a million years think of having one on any sheltie.

Earnhardt needed to learn boundries where we previously lived.The collar was not used by us on a daily basis. It was placed on him,by someone familiar with it,and was only used for a short time frame, as it certainly did not take him long to realize what was expected of him not to cross the flags that were placed.

As far as barking,we did then with Earnhardt, and we are now teaching Trapp to "hush",and he is for the most part sometimes getting it.But I am not in an area where I have to be to concerned with barking.

Earnhardt was not a barker for the sake of barking.But he was taught early what "hush" is,I only have to put my index finger ot my lip,no words,and he knows.
 
Barb, I agree with you, on how the de-barks sound today. 20 years ago, they did sound raspy, and hoarse. Now it is just a softer bark. Our Annie sounds just like Dino the dinosaur from the Flintstones. She even rolls her "r's". Meg will get her to bark on command while waiting for individual judging in the show ring, and it makes everyone laugh.
 
as far as your worries about her raspy barking etc, I just had one of mine debarked, she still makes all the funny little groaning/whining sounds she could before nothing that changed except for the octive of her bark. I live on a hill a street away from the ocean. when the leaves are off the trees their barks carry quite a distance (there is actually another sheltie who lives across the harbor who we can hear)! and strange enough she was the barker out of my group. especially when outside, nothing worked to keep her quiet unless I kept her in the house 24/7 which would make her miserable because she likes being out.
On a side note my brothers has labs and has a collar that is not only a "shock" collar but also has a feature that lets you vibrate it to get their attention. Although I will have to say it probably wont work too well on a sheltie.
Honestly I would have had her bebarked much sooner but I was worried she wouldn't be able to make all her quirky sounds...had I known she would still make the same sounds just quieter I would have had her done at 6 months!
 
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With the barking it may just be that you needed to implement several things at a go and give it some time to work. You've tried many many things in the one year of your sheltie's life and with training, it often takes months before you see any sort of improvement. Of course with things like e-collars you might get results in an instant, but you might also see what you're experiencing now! I think she may have associated the zap with being outside instead of the barking, so effectively, her barking problem isn't gone at all. Just that she's not had the chance to go out and get revved up and bark.

Now, you'll need to build your dog's confidence again. You should, in my opinion, burn that e-collar or run it over with the car. Go outside with your dog if it will go with you, and do all the fun things you can out there - training, play, feeding meals. Spend time with her outside and show her there's nothing to be afraid of. Take this opportunity to train her to come into the house when you call her to as well, and to also train her to ignore the things that set her off before when she's outdoors, by distracting her with a toy or treats or play. Give it time, and she'll realise the outdoors isn't so scary anymore. It might take a while tho' coz shelties are smart and when they know something's wrong (and the effect of doing the wrong is so great), they won't want to do it again.

My Romeo is a barker. A real can't-shut-up sassy demanding barker. While I was away for 2 weeks, it appears to me he was allowed by my family to bark at every thing that moved outside. Before I'd left, he would only make a sound if someone was very close to the house - he'd just ignore things that are just passing further away. When I got home, everything set him off!! I'd had to struggle to distract him away from everything that moved on the other side of the gate since I returned and sat my whole family down and told them it was not acceptable for them to let him bark the way he did and to distract him and call him in for a treat when he's doing it. He's alot better now. You should have seen my face :eek2: the night I got home and was having dinner and my angel Romeo was behaving like he was possessed by the devil. :lol:
 
Romiosangiovese, don't worry, the collar is shunned forever! I could not believe how powerful they make those things, it's like killing a gnat with a sledgehammer. I have taken her out and she was timid at first but we played a lot of fetch and I think she is loosening up again, she's running and being a little more her rambunctious self, fortunately she only had it on for a day...

If you distract a barking sheltie with a treat won't they just start coming to the door and barking for treats? Maybe I don't quite understand this method, after all I'm pretty sure Pidge is smarter than me :)
 
Yes it's a good thing she's not had it on her long. I'm glad to hear she's loosening up! More of those sessions would be good for her. Don't forget to take the time while you're out there to reward her for being quiet when things she usually barks at are around.

What I do is this: Romeo hears something outside and runs out barking like mad. After 2 or 3 barks (mere seconds!) I'll go closer to him and go "Romeo, enough!" *insert funny smacking mouth noises, whistling, hand clapping, thigh slapping* The instant Romeo turns his head towards me I go "Yes! GOOD BOY!" (high squeaky fun voice! If you have a clicker you can click and mark this instead.) The words "good boy" has been conditioned to be a harbinger of treats and good things coz of all the training, etc so he usually perks up a bit. At this stage I'll quickly go in same weird voice "Let's go get a treat Romeo!" (coz I usually don't carry liver with me! I'll also repeat the "good boy" coz it acts as a bridge to when a treat is given. It also keeps his attention! If I don't do this, and treats aren't forthcoming, he'll go right back to barking. Sometimes you can almost see him think "should I go on barking or go to mum?" and he'll be turning his head back and forth trying to decide. If I see this I KNOW I have to try harder to keep his attention!). Then I will turn away from him and jump around towards where his treats are kept. So it's alot of "let's go! Well done! Get treats! good boy! You want treats? Yes! Good boy!" to keep his attention on me while whatever is outside passes. And we make our way to his treat stash and he gets a few good ones.

It's all about distracting! Being more exciting than whatever is inciting the barking. The reward (the good dogs and the treats) are for turning away (and not barking!) from whatever is outside. As such, you're not actually rewarding the barking and the smart sheltie will know that the thing that gets the reward is turning towards mummy when mummy says "ENOUGH!!" Over time, Romeo went from requiring a whole orchestra of mouth sounds and clapping to just a verse and then the beginning notes and now a simple "enough!" will get him to turn and come towards me for his treat. I hope this helps!!
 
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This sounds like a really good thing to try...what about when you are playing and she starts barking because she gets excited, since her focus is already on you? If I'm outside she's pretty much fixated on me anyway so I'm not sure what to distract her from! Also, what do you do if they are outside and you are inside? Do you just go out there every time they bark? I'm concerned that Pidge will think that if she barks I'll come out and give her a treat:rolleyes2:. Thanks!
 
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