Breaking the treat dependency?

SheepOfBlue

SheepOfBlue

Premium Member
Let me start by saying Sca behaves real well for a 7 month old pup. However he is food obsessed to the point the breeder emphasized it (of course she has Shelties) and this is great for training but..... He sits decent and comes so-so but ANY trick if I get near the cookie tub he is instant focus and just sitting there waiting for what to do. Great for starting but then I only get awesome when I have a treat. For instance I have been teaching "go outside" so I don't have to carry him to the door. If I tell him that he looks and kind of considers it, if I have been to the cookie bin I worry about him running into the door :lol: I tried just keeping a pouch with cookies but then he is glued to me until it empties (I mean REALLY food obsessed). His sit, stay, down, outside are at about 30% without a cookie (well sit might be higher) his leave it and drop it are 10%. Of course with a treat they pretty much max at 110%

Any tips on lessening the tie to food?
 
Are you doing focused training sessions?

When you start traing a trick/behavior, reward ever time. After he starts getting it, begin rewarding with praise every third time for a while, then 1/2 the time. then once in a great while.

Set up treat pouches around the house. Don't use a treat bag unless you are doing focussed training. Throughout the day/evening give random commands and rewards. Teach him that whenever you want, you can make a treat appear.

He'll eventually transfer that focus from the treat bag to you :) It takes a little while. I'm just getting Deja to pay attention to me over the bag :)
 
yea, if you find a solution tell me. Deska still drools when I give him some commands even tho I gave up treating him ages ago.

Remember Stanley Coren says it takes 6 repetitions for a sheltie to 'get it'. So I figure I will give them 12 times with a treat, then wean them off the treats. Now they rarely get a treat except if I am teaching a new command (and if Deska doesnt chase a car, always worth rewarding that). If I get that 'where's my treat look' they get an even dirtier 'don't even think about a treat' look back from me - it usually works (alternatively yelling the command and adding a NOW on the end also gets a response).
 
Interesting. I like the multi treat bins. Not sure what you mean by focused but if I snap the treat bowl lid his focus goes laser sharp. I usually make him do two or three things each time. Otherwise he only gets them to go out and sometimes at night. Oh and his cookie leaking kong :biggrin2:
 
Heh.. not his focus, yours!! In otherwords, do you set aside training time where the TV/Computer is turned off. It's 'training time'. Some folk mark this time with their pets by having a 'special' collar they put on when they have their training time.
 
Vary when you reward. Start by rewarding every time with a new behavior, then go to maybe every other time, then maybe 1 in 5, then maybe 1 in 10... Fade the treats out.
 
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I don't want to give Zak a treat for everything either. It sure has helped though letting him out off lead on our back yard, it is fenced but he was so focused on the mulch now I offer a treat but he has to come inside to get it. We start obedience classes next week and I will use treats there but I do like to go back and forth between treats and praise.
 
An Opinion

Our opinion:

Stop giving treats, cold turkey for basic commands and obedience. You will always be tied to treats if they are used for anything other than.........treats.

Defined: Treats are something, such as one's food or entertainment, that are paid for by someone else.

Let me explain, if I may (and if I am able in writing).

Your dog in his/her action of obedience is making a payment for the food, therefore, it is not a treat. But many will state that the food is truly a "reward." Reward being a positive reinforcement for performance of a desired behavior.

But here is where is gets tricky. Think like a dog, not as a human. What is food to a dog? Food is a biological need. Food as a reward creates confusion in dogs. The dog thinks he is able to get more food (meaning better survival) by performing desired behaviors.

This is why a dog will run up to you and automatically sit, or automatically dance or beg or whatever is the best means of receiving food: survival.

You have the ability to take your companionship with your pet to a higher level, by building a relationship without the use of food. Use a bright smiling face, welcoming pats on the head and soft spoken words of encouragement and care for positive reinforcement, and I promise you will have the best fellowship you will ever have with a dog. And shelties do this best because they are so highly intelligent.

This is not a popular opinion, but we use no treats or rewards of food in training. In training they are learning their place in the grand scheme of the world and what is their relationship to you. When we are all just sitting around in the evening and everything is relaxed and nothing is going on, the dogs will get a "treat." A food treat paid for by us out of our good will.

Again, this is a good subject and must be discussed gently because we are working on inference and we are making our decisions based on opinions.
 
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Interesting. He really does good but his fixation on all things food is stunning (you would think he was wasting away to nothing :rolleyes2:) My last dog (Cocker Spaniel/Spitz mix) really was uncaring about food so Sca is funny
 
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