Clicker Training 101 (Please!!)

G

Goggle

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Toffee's Mom suggested I try clicker training with Domino in another thread so I went out and bought a clicker and now of course I have a few questions! If this has been discussed in another thread please let me know (I did do a quick search and couldn't find anything but I could very easily have missed it!!).

So I understand that clicker training is about shaping behaviour and not commanding it. BUT to obtain a certain behaviour is it OK to distract, or cajole the dog (without physical manipulation) or must it be on his own time?

For example, my first task is to train him "Off" - for use when he is jumping on me or the furniture. He knows up so I am able to ask him to jump on the couch and then sit. When I am standing away from the couch and release him from the sit his first reaction is to jump off the couch and come over to me so I am clicking this behaviour (started clicking as soon as his four feet were on the floor and then moved to waiting until he sat. I have also now added the command to this action). The next step is to train him to jump off when I am sitting on the couch as well. Even though this is the same command just with me in a different position I think I should start again from the very beginning (ie shape a look at the floor, then a move to stand, then a stand, then a move towards the edge of the couch, etc etc). However, he does not really offer the initial look towards the floor as he is too focussed on looking at me. So is it OK to move my hand towards where I want him to look or will this teach him to look at my hand? I guess this could be applied to anything that you are attempting to train - must the behaviour be offered completely independently by the dog or can it be encouraged by the trainer?

Wow...this ended up being pretty long winded for a pretty simple question...so for anyone that actually got to the end of it I would really appreciate your help!:smile2:
 
haha
wow great strides!!! Yes you can, could make gestures but be VERY careful not to lure with the treat... wait him out. Put treats in your pockets during training sessions...

I guess I would try the first few times to get up from the couch, which probably initiates his move towards the floor, then click and treat... then make the move to get up slower until he gets what you want... he will eventually offer the jump if you wait him out. Make sure you use high value treats for every new trick/command
 
Thanks for the suggestions. I was just holding the treats in my hand so I think it was distracting Domino. They will be in my pocket tonight!

I am glad that it is OK to suggest a behaviour through your movements (ie getting up off the couch) because I was starting to wonder how long I would have to sit there and wait for him to do something!! Lol...last night he was just sitting staring at me wondering why I wasn't doing anything and I was just sitting staring at him wondering why he wasn't doing anything!

On another note...I was just wondering how many people on the forum use clicker training? To be honest I hadn't really heard about it before Toffee's Mom suggested trying it. It really does make sense to me and I think Domino is enjoying it much more than our old training methods (which i have to admit I am not sure I even had a method....I just did whatever seemed to work at the time!:uhoh:).
 
Goggle said:
Thanks for the suggestions. I was just holding the treats in my hand so I think it was distracting Domino. They will be in my pocket tonight!

I am glad that it is OK to suggest a behaviour through your movements (ie getting up off the couch) because I was starting to wonder how long I would have to sit there and wait for him to do something!! Lol...last night he was just sitting staring at me wondering why I wasn't doing anything and I was just sitting staring at him wondering why he wasn't doing anything!

On another note...I was just wondering how many people on the forum use clicker training? To be honest I hadn't really heard about it before Toffee's Mom suggested trying it. It really does make sense to me and I think Domino is enjoying it much more than our old training methods (which i have to admit I am not sure I even had a method....I just did whatever seemed to work at the time!:uhoh:).
Click to expand...

I use clicker training some with Diva. But I am not a purist in that I don't use the clicker to only capture behavior and shape(I do this) but to mark behaviors in place of yes. I do use luring too. Opposition reflex to build drive. I do use NRM for feedback. I just don't use physical manipulation to teach my behaviors anymore and no more guiding to correct. I guess I am a behaviorist who uses all principles of the learning theroy but lean heavy to the reenforcement side so I don't have to ever punish/correct(I hate the word punish- it just refers to apply or remove something that decreases the chance the behavior occurs again not something always harsh or physical). It is a great tool in my bag of teaching tricks. I don't believe in doing anything unless I know why and how it relates to the learning theroy. Because we have always done it this way doesn't work with me.
 
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YES we all have our own spin on it, the thing is that you can NOT do any harm
I really don't know why more people don't try it! I think the media and the 'dominance theory' lobby really just haven't caught up yet :razz:

I am frustrated sometimes when trainers in classes don't even TRY to use it, or mention it to people who may want to try it! Yet they critique it to the point of belittling it, but have NEVER experienced or tried it ... the kind of trainers that don't allow you to bring in food to class and want you to correct the behaviour by using a choke chain... oh and think everything a little pup does is awful since it means he is trying to be the boss of you *sigh*
lol

I have used BOTH now and can honestly say I wish I had known this years ago, it so works for ME.. I am just never really frustrated and upset anymore!!!! I used to think only the compulsion way was right, thank goodness I was 'converted'
hehehehe

It was agility videos I was watching... even obedience trained dogs show the difference.. they have such a great sparkle in their eye, willingness, happiness and confidence when they are working you just will NOT get with compulsion trained dogs...
 
This was how I taught Off from the couch:

Toss treat on to the floor from the sofa, dog jumps off, click before dog gets to treat.

I don't always shape and don't believe shaping a behaviour produces a "stronger" behaviour than luring.

If you do want to use the getting off the couch motion to initiate the Off you will need to fade that motion out. That is, you get up less and less until your bum doesn't get off the couch at all. Otherwise the dog may associate your body language of getting up as the cue for getting off the couch and not the word you pair it with.
 
Toffees Mom said:
I am frustrated sometimes when trainers in classes don't even TRY to use it, or mention it to people who may want to try it! Yet they critique it to the point of belittling it, but have NEVER experienced or tried it ... the kind of trainers that don't allow you to bring in food to class and want you to correct the behaviour by using a choke chain... oh and think everything a little pup does is awful since it means he is trying to be the boss of you *sigh*
lol
Click to expand...

I am happy to say that the trainer in the class that we are taking Domino to actually did mention using a clicker and was very positive about it. It is definately not a requirement for the class but it seems that if you decide not to use a clicker she encourages the use of the word "yes" in it's place. I am very impressed by the trainers there and hopefully I will be able to learn alot of great techniques from them. And there are definately NO choke chains allowed!

Unfortunately I think this is pretty rare but the class we are going to is run by the Humane Society here and their purpose for the classes is to prevent dogs being turned into rescue because of unmanageable behaviour so it seems that they really focus on positive training and building trust between the dog and owner.

So I guess there are a few great trainers if you look in the right place!
 
I totally agree, good job Humane Society!
A friend designed a clicker leash, and has met with Victoria Still well, who will feature it on her website... it's all about getting the word out.. there ARE alternatives out there :)
 
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