Clicker Training Help

SheltieChe said:
I know of some really good trainers who will use clicker on any other mammal/ animal including snails, chickens and who knows what else but swear that clickers are not for dogs... so go figure...
In my mind clicker is like camera that separates picture perfect "cheese" moment. I can not imagine using it in agility as I would not know what picture perfect moment I need to click- when Che is looking for weaves? when he finds correct entrance? when he is not popping the weaves? when he has good drive and speed? I was taught that yes, once click means one treat principle but...
What I am trying to say that I think you are creating your own language with Koji and if he understands what are you saying who cares about anything else?
OTOH my main cues in agility come from my body motion, my both trainers are threatening to put duct tape over my mouth if I say one more verbal command so maybe I just should switch to c/t:biggrin2:
Click to expand...


Oh yeah, like Silaria said, you CAN do it all. I have no idea, but that book should help.

See, I know Koji should be reading off my cues, but he needs to learn to stop at the contact even though I'm still moving. Or he needs to go out when I put pressure on him and he hasn't learned either. Using the clicker has helped because I can mark things I want from him.

I'm going to go read that book and see if I'm just doing it ALL wrong or what. lol.
 
I agree with Silaria...

I only click when I can reward. At the end of the 'trick' aka sequence
This is where I use my bait pouch or tug toy to throw the reward where I wanted him to be.
I also always just work on ONEbehaviour at the time... so I don't click contacts if I am working on distance..
I wait until I put it all together in a sequence and then reward the end
 
According to the book:

Avoid this scenario:
1. Click a behavior you want.
2. Reach for the bait bag.
3. Realize the zip lock is sealed and fiddle with it.
4. Extract a treat wiggling it out of the plastic bag and
the bait bag.
5. Finally deliver the treat to the dog.
Behavior Analyst Jesús Rosales-Ruiz and his students did
a study where the treat was delayed for 5 seconds after
the click. In their study the dog targeted an object with her
nose, was clicked and five seconds later received the treat.
In all cases, the dogs became frustrated and began
barking, whining, biting or pawing at the target prior to the
treat delivery. Some dogs got so frustrated they stopped
targeting altogether. The conclusion of the study was that
treat delivery delay caused superstitious behaviors.
Superstitious behavior refers to the modification or
maintenance of a behavior by accidentally
or unintentionally reinforcing it (James O’Heare).
According to the frustration displayed by the dogs in the
treat delay study, it seems that it may also be a motivation
killer. Avoid these
Click to expand...

Looks like I'm just frustrating Koji (or at least that's what they say). I guess I'd better stop doing the multiple clicks. Even if he knows/understands it, I guess I should be consistent.

Ugh!

I'm starting to realize how bad of a trainer I truly am. LOL
 
Silaria said:
You aren't a bad trainer, Cheryl. You are looking to improve to become the best trainer you can. If you didn't want to improve then you'd be a bad trainer.
Click to expand...

That's true. I'm trying to improve my techniques for agility training. I mean, there's so many ways to do things, but I need a breakdown. lol. And obviously, so does Koji.
 
I've been following this thread and see lots of info for us to learn.
I'll be downloading that book too- I can tell it has many lessons for us since we are so new and really don't know anything :winkgrin:
 
k9kreationz said:
According to the book:



Looks like I'm just frustrating Koji (or at least that's what they say). I guess I'd better stop doing the multiple clicks. Even if he knows/understands it, I guess I should be consistent.

Ugh!

I'm starting to realize how bad of a trainer I truly am. LOL
Click to expand...

Same here, I don't to treat fast enough when I am trying to get harder nose presses... It's not calm at all, and all I get is more paw and whines, lol
So I have been cutting the cheese a bit smaller and hold it closer lol

But I love the baitpouch, when i was doing lead outs during a few jumping grids... it was hilarious when Mister Mister is running around the 16 inch jump trying to cheat... but he learned fast when the bait pouch didn't drop after that little performance... hhahah we are working on it and have to do more, after the snow and ice and crap is gone... he needs to gain confidence, etc
 
I believe you can use encouragement via verbal communication to encourage her and praise her that she's doing it right and click at the very moment you're giving the treat. Clicking and not giving treat will, at times, confused the dog. If she's doing it right, praise and give her treat after clicking thus letting her knows that praise equates to treat in a moment's time and it will only come after the click. Basically it's like encouraging her to keep it on and she will get the treat. So if she's doing it right, praise and hopefully she will keep going till she hears the click sound. A little fine-tuning needed though, to get her used to it if she's already used to your training method.

Just to share ;D
 
k9kreationz said:
According to the book:

Looks like I'm just frustrating Koji (or at least that's what they say). I guess I'd better stop doing the multiple clicks. Even if he knows/understands it, I guess I should be consistent.

Ugh!

I'm starting to realize how bad of a trainer I truly am. LOL
Click to expand...

Don't be silly! We've all made mistakes but so long as we learn from them, the dogs don't mind! :biggrin2:

I wouldn't think the multiple clicks would have been a problem but you said Koji doesn't care much for verbal praise, so you can't really call that a "treat" even if you do praise the beejeebus out of him after each click! For dogs that get a huge thrill out of the words "Good dog!!" that might still work.

I use a little mesh pouch with some treats in it and click then toss it out if I'm doing distance work. Then when the dog gets to the pouch, I race over to get the treat out of it for it, before it has a chance to come back to me! Helps keep the drive away from the handler and towards the next obstacle or wherever you're throwing that thing!

I know alot of agility instructors backchain, clicking an obstacle then extending it slowly and clicking at the end of the chain. Don't forget to now and again, go back and click for shorter chains for reinforcement! (I am reminded of rewarding good stays at start lines)
 
For anyone reading this regarding my agility and clicker training. I'm reading an article called, "does the click end the behavior?" It's very interesting. One part stated the following:

What do you do if you need to reinforce a particularly good moment inside a long chain of behaviors? One answer lies in our choice of reinforcer. Food is not the only reinforcer, after all. Another known cue for a favorite behavior can also be a reinforcer. On the agility field, for example, a trainer may use the click within an ongoing behavior chain to identify a correct action, such as hitting the contact zone. Karen explains, "You don't want the animal to stop, and you don't want the click to go unreinforced, but of course you have a long-distance reinforcer ready to hand, namely, the cue for the next action. So if you follow the click or pair the click instantly with another known cue, you have identified a desired move with the click." You can reinforce a desired behavior with another cue, thereby maintaining the conditioned association of click with a reinforcer, in this case another cue.
Click to expand...

So, if I am clicking w/o an actual treat, my next cue should be the reinforcer. Aka running or agility is the reinforcer. Very nice. I probably shouldn't do this a lot, but knowing that I can click for everything he does, because my next cue is his reinforcer. Assuming he loves to run. lol.

Oh, the article is from here, so they get proper credit: http://www.clickertraining.com/node/303
 
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