digestive issues - help please!

F

frankienme

Forums Regular
Hi All,

I have been having a challenge with Frankie and his digestion. Some may recall he was having some issues and I wasn't sure if it was thyroid - that checked out fine but his heart does show minor issues - something to watch going forward. In the meantime, he had to have dental surgery and in that process, I noticed he had been losing weight. He had just started on a raw food diet - Primal Frozen formula - and I discovered I was not feeding him enough - he is sensitive and does not need all that much but each time I took him to the vet and he was weighed he was showing a loss. I know dogs lean down with raw diets, but I do think he wasn't getting enough. And all his blood work showed nothing else was going on so... after getting some advice on what to do, I increased his food amount. Apparently I did this too much too fast. :no: and he had loose stool and then diarrhea. That was over a week ago and I have felt so angry with myself for doing this:gaah particularly since he was also recovering from surgery. I try to do the best for him and I seem to keep screwing up.

Anyway, I put him on a bland diet per the vets suggestion - first rice and boiled hamburger and he got stopped up. I eased into pumpkin and ground turkey - which I had not heard before and it all came rushing out. It was only slightly improved but still loose. The pumpkin, which I have seen some of you mention is a good remedy here, seems to keep his poop looser. Anyway, I then went back to adding some rice and then a little pumpkin again today. Also adding slippery elm. He has not pooped today. Is he backed up again? :(

I feel terrible because I can't seem to help him get back to normal. And when I do, I now have no idea what to feed him. He was eating TOTW and then NOW Fresh kibble before. That is when he was having some sinus and coat issues and so my homeopathic vet highly recommended raw -so I tried Primal Frozen rabbit and venison for about the last 3 months. He did seem to do okay on that - firm poops and all - but as I said, I wasn't giving him enough and when I upped it, well.. you know what happened. But I am just not sure the raw is right for his system. I suppose I can try again but I am really feeling uncomfortable about experimenting - I don't like him to be a guinea pig while his tummy takes a hit. He is 9 1/2 or 10 years old. Perhaps I should consider high quality canned instead?

Any thoughts on first the pooping and what else to do - besides the vet? I have been there so many times recently with his tooth and the bloodwork. And second on the food - does anyone have experience with Primal and your Sheltie or other suggestions? I know this is not the food thread, but I don't know what else to do. Primal is the only raw that didn't have a recall. Please help. I am so exhausted and all I want to do is help my precious pup feel better again.

Thank you so much!
 
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This sounds very similar to what I'm going through with my dog. She's been eating Stella & Chewy's raw for over a year and every time she went to the vet, she loss a little weight since I switched her. The most recent was a pound in only 2 months :eek2:. She's a smaller sheltie, so a pound is a lot. Her blood work was all normal 2 months ago.

The vet thinks it might be that she is very active with agility and is burning more calories than she is eating. I've been feeding her the same amount of calories on raw that she was eating on kibble... As per the vet's advice, I've recently increased her food and thankfully it has gone well. Actually, she has been pooping less, which is weird :confused2:.

Sounds like you may have increased his food too much, too fast. This has happened to my dog in the past when I tried to increase her food, which is why I always went back to the original portion I was feeding her. Since your dog has been doing well on Primal, I would probably go back to Primal and go back to the portion you were feeding him before you discovered he lost weight. Of course don't go back to Primal until his stool is back to normal. After a few days of normal stool, I would slowly increase his food, almost like when you transitioned him. Not sure how much you're increasing, but for example, if your goal is to increase a whole frozen patty a day, first start with adding 1/4 patty for a few days. If that goes well increase it to 1/2 a patty, etc, etc. Don't rush it.

I increased my dog 1/2 a patty a day. So, I did an extra 1/4 patty in the morning for a few days. No issues with that, so then I added a 1/4 patty at night. So far, so good! I'm going to bring her back to the vet next weekend to see if she gained any weight after increasing food for 3 weeks.

I wouldn't worry too much that he hasn't pooped today. That might actually be a good sign that everything is firming up. I would stick to a bland diet of boiled chicken, turkey or burger and rice, until he firms up. Pumpkin can be good for loose stool, but sometimes pumpkin can be too much fiber and cause loose stool. It can be hit or miss. When his stool firms, I would transition him back to his original portion of Primal...slowly. If think his loose stool and increased food is a coincidence and might actually be a virus, blockage, or something else, certainly take him back to the vet.

I hate giving medical advice. I always worry that I will suggest the wrong thing and something bad will happen. So just to let you know, I am not a vet, not a breeder and my dog is my first dog as an adult... I am just in a similar situation as you and letting you know how I would handle it. Good luck and I hope your dog feels better!
 
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Thank you!

This is so helpful - thank you. However, the original portion that Frankie did okay on was indeed too little food for him. He was 29 pounds - medium sized sheltie. I was only giving 4 ounces in the morning and 3 in the evening with veggies added in to bulk it up. I have no experience with raw feeding and, as I said, was told he didn't need a lot. BUT, I agree, I think I upped it too fast. I went to 8 ounces in the morning - :eek2: without easing my way up. I think I was concerned that he had gone from 27.5 pounds to 26.7 in only 6 days! :no: just after surgery and no other health issues. So I wanted to be sure he had enough nutrition to heal properly. Sometimes the best of intentions....

Okay, I will keep doing the bland diet - thanks for the tips here - until I see some return to normal and then go back to the small amount of Primal and start there. Hopefully he won't waste away in the process. :winkgrin: If he had more weight on him now I wouldn't be such a worry wart. Thank you!

take4roll10 said:
This sounds very similar to what I'm going through with my dog. She's been eating Stella & Chewy's raw for over a year and every time she went to the vet, she lost a little weight since I switched her. The most recent was a pound in only 2 months :eek2:. She's a smaller sheltie, so a pound is a lot. Her blood work was all normal 2 months ago.

The vet thinks it might be that she is very active with agility and is burning more calories than she is eating. I've been feeding her the same amount of calories on raw that she was eating on kibble... As per the vet's advice, I've recently increased her food and thankfully it has gone well. Actually, she has been pooping less, which is weird :confused2:.

Sounds like you may have increased his food too much, too fast. This has happened to my dog in the past when I tried to increase her food, which is why I always went back to the original portion I was feeding her. Since your dog has been doing well on Primal, I would probably go back to Primal and go back to the portion you were feeding him before you discovered he lost weight. Of course don't go back to Primal until his stool is back to normal. After a few days of normal stool, I would slowly increase his food, almost like when you transitioned him. Not sure how much you're increasing, but for example, if your goal is to increase a whole frozen patty a day, first start with adding 1/4 patty for a few days. If that goes well increase it to 1/2 a patty, etc, etc. Don't rush it.

I increased my dog 1/2 a patty a day. So, I did an extra 1/4 patty in the morning for a few days. No issues with that, so then I added a 1/4 patty at night. So far, so good! I'm going to bring her back to the vet next weekend to see if she gained any weight after increasing food for 3 weeks.

I wouldn't worry too much that he hasn't pooped today. That might actually be a good sign that everything is firming up. I would stick to a bland diet of boiled chicken, turkey or burger and rice, until he firms up. Pumpkin can be good for loose stool, but sometimes pumpkin can be too much fiber and cause loose stool. It can be hit or miss. When his stool firms, I would transition him back to his original portion of Primal...slowly. If think his loose stool and increased food is a coincidence and might actually be a virus, blockage, or something else, certainly take him back to the vet.
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Take4Roll10 - I understand

I have a few vets I consult with as well - sometimes who confuse me or take eons to get back to me. I love this site because we are all Sheltie owners here. And you are saying what the vets have said too - so no worries. I take full responsibility. :hugs
 
frankienme said:
This is so helpful - thank you. However, the original portion that Frankie did okay on was indeed too little food for him. He was 29 pounds - medium sized sheltie. I was only giving 4 ounces in the morning and 3 in the evening with veggies added in to bulk it up. I have no experience with raw feeding and, as I said, was told he didn't need a lot. BUT, I agree, I think I upped it too fast. I went to 8 ounces in the morning - :eek2: without easing my way up. I think I was concerned that he had gone from 27.5 pounds to 26.7 in only 6 days! :no: just after surgery and no other health issues. So I wanted to be sure he had enough nutrition to heal properly. Sometimes the best of intentions....

Okay, I will keep doing the bland diet - thanks for the tips here - until I see some return to normal and then go back to the small amount of Primal and start there. Hopefully he won't waste away in the process. :winkgrin: If he had more weight on him now I wouldn't be such a worry wart. Thank you!
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From 4 to 8 ounces, yes that is a big increase overnight. That certainly explains the diarrhea. I totally know how you feel. I freaked out at first, feeling awful that I may have been underfeeding my dog. :( I was very tempted to just start feeding her everything in sight. I felt very guilty. It was really tough to control myself.

He won't waste away. He may just loose a few more ounces till his digestive system gets back on track. You're a great fur-parent for being so concerned. He's a lucky a pup!
 
Yes, a big jump - I know. I even asked the Primal people about it before I did it to make sure and they assured me it would be fine. :( I am and do try to be so careful because Frankie is so precious to me - Shelties are just the sweetest spirits aren't they? :yes: So it pains my heart that I would do anything to harm him - especially after he just had to have a tooth removed - he ate a Sam's Yam and somehow broke the tooth! The poor guy. So, mom felt doubly bad because I gave him that treat. And then I worry about him getting all the vitamins and stuff he needs cuz I know it isn't in the bland diet. Sigh! Anyway, enough bad mommy for today. Let's pray his poop returns to normal, no dehydration and we will SLOWLY try again on the raw stuff and hope to put some weight back on him!:fl

Hugs!:hugs Thanks for your support.

take4roll10 said:
From 4 to 8 ounces, yes that is a big increase overnight. That certainly explains the diarrhea. I totally know how you feel. I freaked out at first, feeling awful that I may have been underfeeding my dog. :( I was very tempted to just start feeding her everything in sight. I felt very guilty. It was really tough to control myself.

He won't waste away. He may just loose a few more ounces till his digestive system gets back on track. You're a great fur-parent for being so concerned. He's a lucky a pup!
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I don't feed raw but at the seminar I did with a vet that recommends it. She said to feed a prebiotic and a probiotic with the diet when you are starting it and at any time that the dog has an issue with it's health. I don't know how long you are supposed to do this for but it might help now. I use lacto bascillus whenever dogs have loose stools here. You can get it from the drug store.
 
Thank you!

Yes, I have heard that too. Primal has both of those things in the food. AND I was just beginning to give Frankie KNINE-11 - which too has pre and probiotics in it. And guess what? Starting that supplement can also cause loose stool - so....:eek2: I needed to stop that because I was just hitting him with every thing in the toolbox that was adding to the problem instead of helping it I think! So I decided to back off on all of it and just start again. He is very sensitive. So, his poor gut is STILL resetting. SLOWLY. Once I restart the raw, I will add a simple pro-biotic. Then, I will ease into the KNINE-11 as that will surely make his stool loose a bit for a time until his system adjusts. sigh. Such a journey.

Thank you for your suggestion - perfect. So far, Frankie pooped yesterday once and it is on the upswing - again - SLOWLY. I need to be patient - but I am not one for that with him. Trying:o
 
Update

Hi All,

Frankie's poop is still quite soft - doesn't seem normal though the vet said not of concern unless explosive or watery :eek2: - but I have no idea how long is too long for very soft to be okay before BACK to the vet again for what - poop test?:confused2::ick Any thoughts?
 
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