Electric Fence?

[SweetMagnolia]

I'm looking for thoughts and advice on installing an electric fence for a Sheltie.

I know lots of people are opposed to electric fences in general, so I'm not looking for those comments here. I'm looking for feedback specifically on shelties and these "fences."

Spouse and I have different opinions on this. Most feedback we've had from friends is that the e-fences "work well." But no input from anyone with a Sheltie (or collie family).

I'm concerned about her thick fur and the collar even making contact. (yes other concerns too but that's the extent of my question on this post)

Any experience?

 

[Hanne]

If you did not like my answer, skip it please.

I would never, never use it on so sensitive a race as a Sheltie.

Can tell you that these collars are completely banned to sell / use in my country, as they are considered to be animal cruelty

 

[labgirl]

They are not a good idea. Aside from thinking that there are a lot better (and nicer) ways of keeping your dog safe, they are far from reliable and can teach your dog to be afraid of going outside. Especially a sensitive breed like a sheltie.

When my brother had sheep on private land, my brother had an electric fence around them to prevent dogs getting to them. Aside from the battery life being awful and the things always powering down, the one time the sheep were attacked by a dog the fence completely failed. It was live, but the dog was so determined to get the sheep it charged straight through ignoring the shock. The owner of the dog (we presume) them broke the fence to retrieve his dog. We ended up with a sheep with a gaping throat wound and a broken fence.

In another story, I always kept Cadbury away from the live fence, but one day he slipped me and ran straight into it and was shocked. It took me weeks afterwards to convince him that the field was not going to magically shock him again and that he did not have to cross it in a crouch.

I could list other reasons why I think electric fences are pointless and cruel, but those are my two personal experiences.

 

[labgirl]

Can tell you that these collars are completely banned to sell / use in my country, as they are considered to be animal cruelty

Denmark rocks!

 

[Silaria]

Are you referring to an invisible fence (where the wires are in the ground transmitting a radio signal which results in a shock or high pitched noise - depending on brand - to the dog) or an actual wire fence with electric current running through it?

If you are referring to the latter, a traditional electric fence, I don't know much about those but it looks like others do.

If you are referring to an invisible fence, absolutely not with any dog, especially a sensitive Sheltie.

For one thing, the dog is being corrected by a device and never really knows why the correction is being issued. It can also make them fearful to go into the yard because. It can result in fear aggression toward whatever the dog assumes is the cause of the shock/noise; people, other dogs, cars, etc. Anything the dog assumes caused the correction. Remember, dogs do not associate cause and affect in the same way humans do. They are intelligent but don't have the ability to reason out X caused Y without repetitive training. With a Sheltie, corrective based training, vs positive training techniques, can result in a dog who shuts down and is fearful.

Second, if the dog runs out of the fence area, and it does happen, the dog may be afraid to cross back INTO the area for fear of being shocked or hearing the noise.

Third, it might keep your dog in but it does not keep anything else out. An aggressive loose dog will be able to freely run into your yard and attack your dog potentially leaving your poor Sheltie with no where to go to get away from the attack. If you have wild animals in your area, like coyotes, it won't keep them out and they have been known to go after Shelties for food.

Finally, and this is perhaps the most minor of the down sides, if you hope to do any sort or performance work, such as agility, with your dog, it can make your dog afraid of the automatic timers used. The quiet beep they make when time starts and stops is more than enough to scare a dog who views that sound as a correction into not wanting to play the game. I have seen handlers request manual start/stop of the timers because their dog would react as if they were in a yard with an invisible fence.

 

[tesslynn]

Denmark rocks!

It gets my vote for being smart and logical!!!!! I just don't think zapping a pet to keep it contained is the right answer.

 

[tofu pup]

I know lots of people are opposed to electric fences in general, so I'm not looking for those comments here...
I'm concerned about her thick fur and the collar even making contact. (yes other concerns too but that's the extent of my question on this post)

Unfortunately, I don't think you're going to find much of an answer to this specific question... because, as you can see, the vast majority of people who own Shelties/Collies/other sensitive, hairy herding breeds know well enough not to try putting an electric collar on their dog to see if it makes contact.

It breaks my heart to think that someone would intentionally put something around their Sheltie's neck with the intention of scaring and hurting them (or, in the language of the manufacturers, "warning and correcting").

Your dog deserves better than that.

 

[Caro]

Oh drat, pushed the wrong button and deleted my last post so I have to type it again.

Recently on a local vet tv show (you know the kind where they follow the vets in a rural practise), they treated a farmer's dog that had gotten run over having run straight through the invisible fence. It stuck in my mind because, some years ago I tried an e-collar in desperation on my car herding Sheltie (after he jumped out a car window to chase a car). It was under vet supervision - she used the techniques she learnt in, I think Norway. No amount of zapping worked. The main reason being his adrenalin levels were so high that it masked his pain threshold. But the vet also said I'd have to keep the ruff fur cut right back to ensure proper and even contact with the skin or the dosage would be too variable. So the moral is 1) more fur does impact on efficacy, and 2) a dog acting on instinct is just going to ignore it.

And no I don't support e-collars and would happily see them banned, it's just I got so desperate when I saw my sheltie almost get killed.

 

[ghggp]

Invisible (Electric) Fencing

THIS IS A POST TAKEN DIRECTLY FROM MID FLORIDA SHELTIE RESCUE

Invisible or electric fencing is a very popular fencing option that many of today’s homeowners are choosing. While there may be some aesthetic and cost benefits to this type of fencing, we in Rescue have discovered a great deal of problems related to safety, security, and humane treatment of the dog with this type of fencing, particularly with its use with a rescued Sheltie.

Because the Sheltie’s coat is extremely thick around the neck, in order for the electronic shock collar to be effective on a Sheltie, the shock level must be turned up very high and the length of the prongs must be very long. The high shock level and length of the prongs can cause pain and injury to the dog. Some dogs we have known have tried to scratch the shock collar off, catching their foot in the collar and getting burned and receiving puncture wounds from the prongs.

Another problem with the use of this style of fencing is that a dog will still run through the “fence”, accepting the first shock but refusing to return to the yard for a second shock. Shelties are very intelligent creatures. They CAN think and seem to understand cause and effect processes as it relates to their behavior. It does not take long for the average Sheltie to learn that if he received a shock leaving the yard, he’ll get another shock going back into the yard. The result is a Sheltie loose in the neighborhood, likely a new, unfamiliar neighborhood. The dangers of further injury and possible death are enormous.This leads us to yet another reason that the use of these fences with Shelties are a great concern. Rescued Shelties have lived in many different environments by the time they arrive into the Rescue program. Many have lived with several families during their lives, then find themselves either living by their wits alone on the streets or dumped in shelters. When they go to a new home, it will take quite a long adjustment period (several months, maybe longer) for them to realize and accept that this is finally their home. During that adjustment period, the risk of the rescued Sheltie trying to “escape” is great. An invisible fence will NOT prevent this.

Not only will an invisible fence NOT keep a dog in the yard, it will not keep another animal from coming into your yard and injuring or killing your dog. Nor will it stop a human from coming into the yard and stealing your pet, which happens every day.These are just some, but not all, of the reasons why we will not adopt a rescued Sheltie into a home in which the intent is to use an invisible fence.

 

[Ann]

Aside from the problem you will have with a collar reaching through the Sheltie coat to be effective (and the obvious answer that electric fences are a terrible option for this breed) the biggest problem you will have is that your Sheltie will run through the fence. When a squirrel, walker, biker or some other stimulus is spotted, adrenaline takes over and the dog will run through the fence.

Then it cannot get back in, and a Sheltie temperament being flight-oriented, the dog will not wait around for you to discover the escape. Your Sheltie will vanish and you'll have a lost dog who is frightened by the thing zapping its neck, making it even more difficult to find.

Whether you want to hear it or not, these "fences" are a bad idea. Keep your dog safe with a real fence, please!