Focus and drive for agility

S

Simba13

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Well my baby Simba will be a year old on Sunday and so we recently started beginners agility after doing a good few foundation classes (no contact equipment, no jumps just wings and tunnels). In the foundation class although Simba was the youngest by far, he started at 6 months and did 1 class a week for 6 weeks, he seemed to be much more chilled and layed back then the other dogs. He would stand at my side without the lead on and would not go over to the other dogs until I gave him permission.

Now however every time I take him of the lead he trots of over to the gate and sniffs around the grass. He doesn't seem to have any drive and it seems like he is only doing it because I want him to. I obviously don't want to continue if he is not enjoying it. I was wondering if anyone has any tips on how to build drive and focus. We did an exercise in class for forward focus where we would hold the dogs collar and throw a piece of food just out of the dogs reach. All of the other dogs where trying their hardest to get it however Simba sat and looked at me and didn't try to get the treat until I gave him a verbal command. He is toy crazy but he only wants to tug and so throwing it doesn't work either.

I won't give up on the class until I feel that attending is making him unhappy as he loves the playtime afterwards and seeing all the other dogs and people.
 
I know I've told this story here before, but I'll tell it again. In Bentley's first agility class we worked with target plates. The exercise went like this: show the dog that you put a dollop of peanut butter on a target plate. Show him, get him excited about it, etc. Then, hold him back while you place the plate a few feet in front of him. Then, release him to the peanut butter! Bentley would just stand there. It's not that he doesn't like peanut butter, but he thought that since I had pulled him away/not allowed him to have the peanut butter, that he shouldn't have it. So he refused to try and get it. I thought our agility career was over before it started!

Bentley now has his ADCH, and while he isn't the fastest dog out there, he definitely isn't the slowest either, and I believe that he does enjoy the sport.

There are some dogs that have more drive than others. My 3 dogs are living proof of this. But, I think that every dog can be taught to be MORE drivey if done in the right way.

The first thing that I did was sit down and think about what Bentley loved. He doesn't like toys at all, but you know what he did like? He loves to chase my husband and I in the yard. He would bounce around barking and smiling the whole time. So we incorporated chasing into agility. Instead of a food or toy reward, he would get to chase me at the end of a run. He also gets excited if you push him around (not too rough, of course!) so we worked on that. Before each exercise, he and I played together.

While I'm not a devout Susan Garrett follower, she has a great philosophy about working with your dog. You need to be the most fun thing out there. Find something that your dog finds irresistible. It's different for every dog. For example, for Bentley it's my husband and I :), for Lexi it's getting the chance to keep playing, for Enzo it's toys. We also struggled to find treats that Enzo cared a lot about, and finally found a homemade meatball recipe that he ADORES. Other treats are enh for him. So when we first started he'd rather circle over to one side, or check something else out unless we had a toy or a meatball.

The one thing that is a little separate from drive that I want to mention is stress. Sometimes sniffing is just "hey so many yummy smells I'll be over in a minute", and sometimes it's avoidance and stress. It's hard to say without seeing each dog which you're experiencing. If it's stress, find things that make Simba comfortable. What is his default behavior? When Lexi is stressed outside of agility, I get really yummy treats and we just work on sits and releases. She loves to sit haha! So much so that she does it and looks at me sometimes because it's her default. So when I ask her to sit, reward and release it builds up her confidence. "Yes! I can do this! Yes! Cookies!" and her stress diminishes. For Enzo, it's tugging on a toy. If you can't find something that eases your dog's stress in the ring, you might want to take a step back. Can you work farther from the ring? Can you stand in the doorway and do fun things? Can you go to the training building on other nights and just watch? Don't ask Simba to do anything except have fun with you (toys, treats, pets, etc.) then go home.

To answer your specific question about the exercise where you were supposed to throw a treat, I will say that if Simba loves to tug than I am confident that you can get him to tug/retrieve. When you tug, how do you get him to take the toy? If you haven't already, start using a verbal with this. We use "get it!" So if I'm holding the toy and offering it to Enzo, I'll say "get it!" and he gets very excited and grabs it and we start the tugging game. Also, start moving the tug toy around on the ground. Keep it in your hand, but move it around and then use your "get it" command when he gets excited. Keep tugging with the toy low. Do this a lot. Build up excitement and drive for that moving toy on the ground. When he is confidently and excitedly going for that moving toy, move it around and then tell him to "get it" and let go. As soon as he picks it up, grab the end and tug. You don't even want him to notice that you let go. Do this for a bit, and slowly add two things: 1) space between you and the dropped (eventually thrown) toy 2) time/space between you tugging with him. For the first bit you'll be just letting go of the toy right in front of you and picking it up to tug immediately. The next step is to let it go maybe 6" in front of you, and then grabbing it with him and tugging. Next, try not grabbing to tug it right away. Wait a second, then tug. Or stay excited and engaged and step back maybe a step, encouraging him all the way.

The last thing to mention is that it can be really tiresome, but it's super important with a dog with sightly lower drive to always stay excited and engaged. It goes back to making yourself more fun than anything else. I once had a trainer say that it was harder to run a lower drive dog because you have to be "on" all the time. Act like everything you do, and everything they do is the most fun ever! Celebrate even the tiniest victories. If other people are throwing the treat 6 feet out and their dogs are running to get it excitedly, throw your treat 6 inches out and party when Simba gets it. Cheer and reward and play and act like an idiot. Honestly, it's fun! :biggrin2:
 
Thank you so much. I will use all of your tips and tricks with Simba and see how it goes :D

Simba definitely isn't stressed at the class. He loves the class, he is just not that excited about the actual agility aspect haha. He drags me to the gate and then when he sees all of the other dogs he starts his happy bark. When he wanders of to sniff it is always towards the edge where the grass is and I am sure many dogs have peed in it over time. His tail is high and wagging when he wanders of. We had class again yesterday and Simba did very well. 2 classes run at the same time, a beginners class and a more advanced so the area is kind of split into 2 sections with jumps, tunnels and a frame on 1 side and the rest of the equipment on the other (along with jumps and tunnels). W switch sides about 3/4 of the way through the class so the beginners get introduced to the rest of the equipment. I have noticed on that side that Simba is more attentive and eager and I think it is because it is away from the gate that leads out to a field where there is usually dogs playing and all Simba wants to do 24/7 is play!

I'm going to keep it up and even if we never make it to competition standard we will continue to attend if he is having fun!
 
Ashley summed it up much better than I could. I was going to suggest you use Simba's desire to tug as his motivator.

In the years I've been teaching agility classes, I've had dogs with many different motivators. Some were food driven, toy driven, and some that simply wanted their handler's praise and affection. You need to learn what motivates your dog and figure out how to incorporate it into the training; like Ashley using a game of chase with Bentley.

Be patient and work on becoming the most interesting thing in your dog's life. Don't be afraid to be a bit goofy with Simba. Remember, agility is just a game have fun.
 
Simba13 said:
Thank you so much. I will use all of your tips and tricks with Simba and see how it goes :D

Simba definitely isn't stressed at the class. He loves the class, he is just not that excited about the actual agility aspect haha. He drags me to the gate and then when he sees all of the other dogs he starts his happy bark. When he wanders of to sniff it is always towards the edge where the grass is and I am sure many dogs have peed in it over time. His tail is high and wagging when he wanders of. We had class again yesterday and Simba did very well. 2 classes run at the same time, a beginners class and a more advanced so the area is kind of split into 2 sections with jumps, tunnels and a frame on 1 side and the rest of the equipment on the other (along with jumps and tunnels). W switch sides about 3/4 of the way through the class so the beginners get introduced to the rest of the equipment. I have noticed on that side that Simba is more attentive and eager and I think it is because it is away from the gate that leads out to a field where there is usually dogs playing and all Simba wants to do 24/7 is play!

I'm going to keep it up and even if we never make it to competition standard we will continue to attend if he is having fun!
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About the sniffing- it is a sign of stress. I don't want to tell you you're wrong, because obviously you know your dog better than I do! My dog is overly enthusiastic about agility, to the point where it can be a problem. Sometimes I accidentally stress her out, and they way I know she's stressed- she starts eating grass and sniffing everywhere. At first I thought maybe the fresh spring grass was extra tasty, but no, it's stress and/or frustration. We took a big break in our training, so we're having to re-learn some stuff. One night we worked on the teeter totter, and the instructor was pushing her a little too much, so the next thing you know, she's off munching on grass. She will also do this if when we're having a communication problem, she's not sure what I want her to do, she just knows she hasn't done it right yet, so she'll just stop and eat grass. Then I have to bust out some treats and get her to do stuff where she's right, and she's happy because she getting treats. Even if he isn't stressed, and he's just sniffing where other dogs peed, it is a good thing to know about the signs of stress in dogs and to watch for them in class, especially if you're worried about him not enjoying agility.

Seconding (thirding?) the idea about the tug. What I've seen people to is get the tug low on the ground and drag it around to trigger their prey drive a little. Saying "get it!" encourages them as well. My dog came home fetching, and her favorite thing to do at home is play tug, then I get her to drop it, then I toss it, and she retrieves and brings it back for more tugging. Her motivation to bring the toy back was the fact that we were going to have a tug-fest when she came back.
 
Jess041 said:
About the sniffing- it is a sign of stress. I don't want to tell you you're wrong, because obviously you know your dog better than I do! My dog is overly enthusiastic about agility, to the point where it can be a problem. Sometimes I accidentally stress her out, and they way I know she's stressed- she starts eating grass and sniffing everywhere. At first I thought maybe the fresh spring grass was extra tasty, but no, it's stress and/or frustration. We took a big break in our training, so we're having to re-learn some stuff. One night we worked on the teeter totter, and the instructor was pushing her a little too much, so the next thing you know, she's off munching on grass. She will also do this if when we're having a communication problem, she's not sure what I want her to do, she just knows she hasn't done it right yet, so she'll just stop and eat grass. Then I have to bust out some treats and get her to do stuff where she's right, and she's happy because she getting treats. Even if he isn't stressed, and he's just sniffing where other dogs peed, it is a good thing to know about the signs of stress in dogs and to watch for them in class, especially if you're worried about him not enjoying agility.

Seconding (thirding?) the idea about the tug. What I've seen people to is get the tug low on the ground and drag it around to trigger their prey drive a little. Saying "get it!" encourages them as well. My dog came home fetching, and her favorite thing to do at home is play tug, then I get her to drop it, then I toss it, and she retrieves and brings it back for more tugging. Her motivation to bring the toy back was the fact that we were going to have a tug-fest when she came back.
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Thank you for replying :) I know what you mean by stress sniffing as I have a collie who was a stress sniffer. I know how Simba show his stress and it is usually by lieing down or refusing to move. He is an intact male who pee's constantly on his walks. When we are in the park he sniffs from the moment we enter until the minute we leave. I have had him for 9 months now (since he was 3 months old) and I have spent so much time socializing him to sights, sounds and situations. Hardly anything phases him. He does brilliantly in large groups, the sounds of the seesaw banging is his all time favourite because he knows 'bang'=treat :)

Speaking to my instructor after I posted this thread he says the reason Simba in't motivated in 80% my fault. He needs me to be over the top and loud which I am now working on (i'm a pretty quiet person). He said that the long grass full of lovely smells is much more interesting to Simba them I am. For obedience I don't have to be so over the top because Simba just loves it and can't wait to get to class.

I will definitely work on his tug. He will be very happy for all the extra tugging :biggrin2:
 
corbinam said:
I know I've told this story here before, but I'll tell it again. In Bentley's first agility class we worked with target plates. The exercise went like this: show the dog that you put a dollop of peanut butter on a target plate. Show him, get him excited about it, etc. Then, hold him back while you place the plate a few feet in front of him. Then, release him to the peanut butter! Bentley would just stand there. It's not that he doesn't like peanut butter, but he thought that since I had pulled him away/not allowed him to have the peanut butter, that he shouldn't have it. So he refused to try and get it. I thought our agility career was over before it started!

Bentley now has his ADCH, and while he isn't the fastest dog out there, he definitely isn't the slowest either, and I believe that he does enjoy the sport.

There are some dogs that have more drive than others. My 3 dogs are living proof of this. But, I think that every dog can be taught to be MORE drivey if done in the right way.

The first thing that I did was sit down and think about what Bentley loved. He doesn't like toys at all, but you know what he did like? He loves to chase my husband and I in the yard. He would bounce around barking and smiling the whole time. So we incorporated chasing into agility. Instead of a food or toy reward, he would get to chase me at the end of a run. He also gets excited if you push him around (not too rough, of course!) so we worked on that. Before each exercise, he and I played together.

While I'm not a devout Susan Garrett follower, she has a great philosophy about working with your dog. You need to be the most fun thing out there. Find something that your dog finds irresistible. It's different for every dog. For example, for Bentley it's my husband and I :), for Lexi it's getting the chance to keep playing, for Enzo it's toys. We also struggled to find treats that Enzo cared a lot about, and finally found a homemade meatball recipe that he ADORES. Other treats are enh for him. So when we first started he'd rather circle over to one side, or check something else out unless we had a toy or a meatball.

The one thing that is a little separate from drive that I want to mention is stress. Sometimes sniffing is just "hey so many yummy smells I'll be over in a minute", and sometimes it's avoidance and stress. It's hard to say without seeing each dog which you're experiencing. If it's stress, find things that make Simba comfortable. What is his default behavior? When Lexi is stressed outside of agility, I get really yummy treats and we just work on sits and releases. She loves to sit haha! So much so that she does it and looks at me sometimes because it's her default. So when I ask her to sit, reward and release it builds up her confidence. "Yes! I can do this! Yes! Cookies!" and her stress diminishes. For Enzo, it's tugging on a toy. If you can't find something that eases your dog's stress in the ring, you might want to take a step back. Can you work farther from the ring? Can you stand in the doorway and do fun things? Can you go to the training building on other nights and just watch? Don't ask Simba to do anything except have fun with you (toys, treats, pets, etc.) then go home.

To answer your specific question about the exercise where you were supposed to throw a treat, I will say that if Simba loves to tug than I am confident that you can get him to tug/retrieve. When you tug, how do you get him to take the toy? If you haven't already, start using a verbal with this. We use "get it!" So if I'm holding the toy and offering it to Enzo, I'll say "get it!" and he gets very excited and grabs it and we start the tugging game. Also, start moving the tug toy around on the ground. Keep it in your hand, but move it around and then use your "get it" command when he gets excited. Keep tugging with the toy low. Do this a lot. Build up excitement and drive for that moving toy on the ground. When he is confidently and excitedly going for that moving toy, move it around and then tell him to "get it" and let go. As soon as he picks it up, grab the end and tug. You don't even want him to notice that you let go. Do this for a bit, and slowly add two things: 1) space between you and the dropped (eventually thrown) toy 2) time/space between you tugging with him. For the first bit you'll be just letting go of the toy right in front of you and picking it up to tug immediately. The next step is to let it go maybe 6" in front of you, and then grabbing it with him and tugging. Next, try not grabbing to tug it right away. Wait a second, then tug. Or stay excited and engaged and step back maybe a step, encouraging him all the way.

The last thing to mention is that it can be really tiresome, but it's super important with a dog with sightly lower drive to always stay excited and engaged. It goes back to making yourself more fun than anything else. I once had a trainer say that it was harder to run a lower drive dog because you have to be "on" all the time. Act like everything you do, and everything they do is the most fun ever! Celebrate even the tiniest victories. If other people are throwing the treat 6 feet out and their dogs are running to get it excitedly, throw your treat 6 inches out and party when Simba gets it. Cheer and reward and play and act like an idiot. Honestly, it's fun! :biggrin2:
Click to expand...

I'm so glad I decided to browse this section of the forum today. Honey and I have some nervous issues to work out from last year, and the advice in your post has really given me so solid idea's on where I can start. Thank you for taking the time to share your experiences!
 
I have a dog, Ember, who is a very odd duck when it comes to performance sports. This dog has work ethic and she will give you all she has but you need to follow her rules.

First, no touching which includes petting, pushing, holding , rough housing etc. If she touches you fine. Second tugging. I couldn't get this dog to tug of my life depended on it. Turns out she doesn't like it if you move the toy. I got her to tug by just holding the toy and asking her to take it then pulling back with steady pressure. She actually loves it now. Third, no throwing rewards, she hates that.ducks every time. Fourth, minimal talking. She hated Rally until I realized talking while she was heeling made he nuts. She does like some encouragement during agility but mostly what a good girl! Yeah.

My point is all of the above was what I was told to do to with her and all it did was freak her out. It was not my fault, it was how she is hard wired. I truly think she has aspreger's if a dog can have such a thing. Once I stopped trying to pound a square peg into a round hole and stopped and listened to what my dog was telling me, then we made progress. I found what she likes and not what the instructor tells me my dog should like.

Least you think she is stupid, you can see her name in my signature line. She has a UDX(10 qq which she finished in 13 tries) in obedience, a Open B win, utility B win, and an AKC obedience invitational invite. She could have finished her OTCh but showing was stressful for her and campaigning for the OTCH it is tough and would have been for me . I often wonder how much better she would have been in agility if I had not spent years demotivating her with things she didn't like.
 
I agree with the others. Find something that is motivating to your dog. I have an 8 year old retired conformation bitch that started agility when I got her at 5 years old. What a struggle! She liked the game, but was pokey slow (wouldn't break from a trot) and seemingly unmotivated/uninterested. I tried making it fun for her, but she couldn't care less about toys and shut down quickly when I used too much praise. Ironic. Anyway, food is what turned her around. I turned my polite, quiet little Sheltie into a total food shark. And I used it to my advantage. Racing me to a target or through a straight tunnel was FUN! because there was food at the end. I also removed my start line stay for her because it was stressful for her to sit and wait while I walked away. Often at trials on the release she would turn around and leave for the gate. Now, we start off running together. It has definitely increased her desire to play. So if your dog seems to enjoy the game, don't give up. Just modify your training. It's so worth it to see that moment when it clicks with the dog and you can see the "this is great" expression on their face.
 
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