Handling a slow dog vs.a fast dog

While it might seem like a foreign concept to agility people, what do you think the conformation people do when a dog doesn't turn out? They can't just keep holding on to dogs that don't meet what they are looking to do. If they did, they would be overloaded with dogs and unable to give any of them the attention they deserve.
I guess with my background in horses, where in the show horse world you sell and buy a new horse when you have outgrown the one you have, and a foot in each door in agility and conformation, I don't see it as a big deal. Why keep a dog to run in agility who isn't a good fit for that handler? A slow, low drive dog could make a handler just looking to have fun really happy, but a handler who is looking to go further may be disappointed in the dog they have. Why not find someone the dog would be better suited for? Let's be honest... how many of you who are more competitive types would be happy running a dog for its lifetime who only trotted the course and either barely made course time, or didn't make course time at all in masters/excellent b after having that fast dog (having one before you get a fast dog is a bit different... once you have had that fast dog, you dont really want to go back to only owning a slow dog)? Yes, there is a lot you can do to improve a slow/low drive dog, but let's assume all has been done and the dog is still slow. Is that something you would want? Would those of you who are used to having a fast dog be able to be happy with that being what you had to work with?
It also goes back to what Sharon has said in the past about dogs who are slow not enjoying agility. Would you want to keep a dog who really didn't enjoy it and force that dog to do agility when that is the dog sport you really wanted to do? Why, when you could find that dog a home where it could do something it enjoyed more... maybe herding, or obedience/rally, or even a good pet home? What if you could only have one or two dogs? Would you give up on your dream to keep a dog who wanted little to no part of it?
I can see why conformation people always on lookout of "best" dog... theoretically "best" dog is born not made by grooming and tricks of the trade handling...
Not well aware of professional horse world but is not there common scenario- owner is one person, then there is trainer, then groomer, than actual person who gets to compete with horse? So if we are to think that agility world will develop along same lines high competitions will see the trend- "I bought best dog I could have bought, sent it to best trainer and now hired best runner to run my dog?"
Obviously I am talking from my "not outcome oriented, journey enjoying" position but it would be sad if agility world developed along same lines where dogs are traded like commodity for faster car, more powerful computer...
 
There are three types of people in the Saddlebred show world. There are those most like the conformation people, who buy and own the horse, put it in training, and the trainer does all of the work, including showing the horse. There are those who buy and own the horse, put it it training and let the trainer and barn workers train and care for the horse, and they go out once or twice a week and ride and then show their own horse. The third type is the owner who buys and owns their horse, boards at a boarding barn or keeps their horse at home, does all of the training, and shows their own horse. Horses shown by the pros are in open classes. All others are shown by amateurs and juveniles. The amateur classes are the largest by far, as most people want to show their own horses. The amateur owner trainer classes are generally small, and the open classes fall somewhere in the middle. Most people put horses in training for lack of time or ability to train their horse. I had four of my own... Three Saddlebreds, and a Hackney pony, and was the third type- an amateur owner trainer. In all three scenarios though, unless people have their own land, or the money to continue boarding every horse they have had, horses get bought and sold as riders become more experienced and are ready for a new challenge, or have the means to afford a more competitive horse, or are ready to compete in a different division (show pleasure, country pleasure, five gaited, fie gaited pleasure, park, three gaited, show pleasure driving, country pleasure driving, fine harness, roadster pony/horse under saddle/to bike, harness pony, hackney pony driving). All of the hard work in the world with the best trainer out there isn't going to make a lower quality horse able to be competitive past a certain point.
To be honest, dogs are a commodity. Breeders sell them and we buy them. There isn't a whole lot of difference between a breeder selling the pups who don't fit what they are looking to keep and an agility competitor selling a dog who isn't a good fit with them. You have different goals. That is fine. But there is nothing wrong with a person being more competitive and wanting a dog who can help them fulfill the goals they have. The world is changing, and many people are limited to the numbers they can have. Who are we to frown on them for placing a dog to have the type of dog they want? Buying a puppy is a huge crap shoot. You can buy from a breeder known for producing agility dogs, and get a puppy with a great temperament, structure, drive, and intelligence but there is no telling what that puppy will grow up to be and while we have quite a bit of influence on what our dog becomes, each does have its limitations and we can only improve each to a certain extent. If that dog just isn't going to be what a person wants, they shouldn't have to keep it, so long as they are finding the dog a good home that loves and appreciates the dog.
There are, for instance, some dogs on this forum I wouldn't enjoy owning and running.. Too slow, too low of drive, too shy... And then there are dogs of mine I'm sure certain people wouldn't want either. Ember with her independence, her need for distance, when there are many who prefer a dog show wants to be there with them and enjoy the higher q rate while sacrificing speed, Aurora with her special circumstances to run successfully, and Kai also much like Ember. Rey are food dogs for ME but they wouldn't be good dogs for everyone.
I do know of competitors in agility who do return dogs who don't work out. I can think of one, who had a very talented fast agility dog. When he died, she went looking for another puppy. My friend sold her one, and she was told don't be surprised when she returns the dog. She had already returned several. My friend was lucky that woman did end up keeping the puppy... But yes, it does happen, probably more so the higher up in the game you go.
 
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Thank you for explaining! Am envious of your background I am always at loss when former horse people try to explain something to me at agility:smile2:
I like to think and believe each dog is sent to us for a reason, to learn a lesson in life, if we don't learn it we will still get those same dogs sent to us :yes:
 
Who are we to frown on them for placing a dog to have the type of dog they want? Buying a puppy is a huge crap shoot. You can buy from a breeder known for producing agility dogs, and get a puppy with a great temperament, structure, drive, and intelligence but there is no telling what that puppy will grow up to be and while we have quite a bit of influence on what our dog becomes, each does have its limitations and we can only improve each to a certain extent. If that dog just isn't going to be what a person wants, they shouldn't have to keep it, so long as they are finding the dog a good home that loves and appreciates the dog.

This is an issue very close to me. To me, it just depends on how you view your dog. My dogs are companions first, agility dogs second. But that doesn't mean I'm not competitive. I'd like to go to Nationals. Lexi's injury aside--I believe we could compete there.

But she is injured and may never be able to compete again. I could NEVER give her up because she doesn't meet my expectations (and her injury is a genetic issue, not caused by training, etc...)

Am I disappointed? Absolutely. I'm devastated, honestly. But she is my companion, and she'll stay with me until she's no longer on this earth.
 
Even the best don't get it every time... What I would consider one of this areas top trainers/handlers no longer trials their dog for reasons I can't post here. It certainly is a case of the person and dog not getting along. Not every dog is right for every person.
Something else interesting... again, falling back on horses. I worked for several of Kentucky's better show barns over the years. I know a lot of stories that go with horses moving barns because the trainer wasn't right for the horse and these are world champion trainers I'm talking about... not some idiot who hangs their sign out and thinks they can train. There was a horse a few years ago who wasn't working out with the trainer he was with yet felt the horse had a lot of potential, so the trainer shipped this horse home afer a show with a trainer friend who they felt would suit the horse. That particular trainer clicked with that horse, and ended up going on to win the WGC 5 gaited class at the worlds championship horse show. It wasn't that the original trainer was bad. They were in their own right exceptional, but there are some people and horses that just don't seem to click. There was another, full brother to a world champion. He was passed around, labeled dangerous and crazy by the big name trainers. The typical training regimen didn't work for this horse. He was sent through the big Saddlebred sale, and went cheap (word had gotten around that this horse wasn't safe to most of the influential people). My trainer bought this horse, seeing a glimmer of what he could possibly be. With a different approach, she managed to turn this horse around, and he went on to make a nice show horse. He WAS dangerous when she first brought him home... I can remember him trying to throw her into the manure spreader one day. I could go on with many more.. My point is that not every dog and every person are going to make an ideal team, and sometimes it is better to let them go where they can succeed.
 
Handling Slow vs Fast Dogs

Thinking that dog that does not run fast equals to dog not liking agility is not something I subscribe to. If we follow this train of thought, lots of ridiculous statements can follow... because how fast is fast? What is definition? So if dog in top 50 at nationals lets say it is fast and anything below slow and therefore they do not like agility? If my dogs run faster than me but sure nowhere near what I have seen lets say European Open- are they fast? are they slow? do the like agility?:wink2:
While I agree one can clearly see some dogs that would rather be anywhere than on agility field my thinking it involves far more than just speed equals love for agility... level of confidence, ability to handle stress, understanding of the job asked, experience of the handler, ability of the handler to ask and support clear criteria that only fast run over DW AF et is being rewarded...

Plain and simple in my book and JMO and I am not talking about what you stated here about dogs in the top 50 and getting so technical on it.I am talking about dogs who walk through a course and are clearly stressed, trotting,and has to be yanked around "DOES" not like agility.:winkgrin:
 
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