How Do You Deal With This Senestive Nature

[SheepOfBlue]

This was very encouraging me, I go through this a lot with Luna. I look back at my Aussie/ACD and I think that guy was great, I want THAT bond back, THAT fun we had back, and I do look down at her and I think "your just never going to be that dog, I don't know what you want from me" It really bothers me that I feel that way. I keep telling my hunny though, Im going to keep trying everyday to build this bond. So its very encouraging to hear that Im not the only one that has felt this way and that it will pass. I know last night being able to play with her and he cuddling on the couch with me later at bedtime felt good.

But that is not fair. My last dog was 100% tuned to me but he was also 15 years in the making Sca is pretty darn good already at 3 and while he has his moments Spitfire is fast becoming a super dog with a huge personality.

I am sure in time Luna will become 100% yours

 

[Mignarda]

At the risk of being banned from the forum forever, I'd say that on some occasions the judicious use of corporal punishment is not without merit. If you can catch them right in the act of doing something positively bad and administer a sharp but harmless smack, accompanied by some really stern talk, it can work wonders and save you and your dog a lot of time and grief.

 

[SheepOfBlue]

A stern talk is all Sca ever needs plus a bunch and it would crush Spitfire if I spanked him. Despite his crazy nature he is very easily spooked. Not sure about your dog but it would be a huge mistake with these guys.

 

[Mignarda]

A stern talk is all Sca ever needs plus a bunch and it would crush Spitfire if I spanked him. Despite his crazy nature he is very easily spooked. Not sure about your dog but it would be a huge mistake with these guys.

I'm not sure I'd "spank" a dog, but a sharp smack on the snout wouldn't, in many cases, be amiss. I never was much for hitting my kids, but each of them got the quick smack treatment on three or four occasions. It helped reinforce the milder chastisements.

Notice I say "chastisement" instead of "punishment." In a dog's case, it's always the former, and never the latter. A dog doesn't have the capacity to understand the concept of punishment; of having justice meted out for some wrong act. He's got to associate something unpleasant with a specific action, and of course the chastisement is never to assuage your own feelings, but simply to correct an untoward behavior. And for my part I believe it's counterproductive to stay angry with a dog once he's been chastised. In the first place, he won't understand it, and in the second place you never want him to get accustomed to it, because if he does, you've lost its benefit.

 

[Tonya]

Time and love....

I'm no sheltie expert by any means as I'm only a year into owning my first. BUT! My Luckie came to us a year ago at a year old. She was afraid of EVERYTHING. She pretty much lived in a bathroom (by choice) as she adjusted. If she got outside the fence, she bolted like a maniac, running away. I loved her immediately but I did worry that she may always be a little freak. (I had owned collies all my life. None of them were ever shy or fearful in the least.)

Anyway, a year later she's a different dog. She can be outside the fence with me, she approaches guests, she's just really come into her own. She is still a tad leery of my kids....she just doesn't hang out with them, but doesn't run from them. Our only real hurdle still is the stupid cat. She's terrified of her because she's a bully. It's amazing what love and time will do. Hang in there!

 

[sclevenger]

Well Im not sure where the smacking talk started lol. But I will say I agree with you. My past dogs were not above a quick smack in the heat of the moment, never out of frustration it was to say I strongly disagree with this behavior.

I was told you couldn't do this with shelties because of their soft nature, but I admit my daughter has two extremely nasty looking cuts on her arms from Luna, Luna jumps up and nips and we've been trying all the soft techniques to stop it and its just not working, well my mother(who is a great trainer but very old school) was over visiting, and Luna was jumping up and nipping at my daughter and my mother used sharp noises at first and then Luna kept it up, and my mom reached out right in mid jump at my daughter and bonked her right on the nose. I was like OMG, she just ruined my dog. lol

Well, Luna shook it off and was completely fine and didn't bother my daughter the rest of the night lol. So I've never been against it, I've always owned very sturdy breeds and telling and ACD to "please quit that" doesn't work, you have to demand and ACD to do something. I was never rough, but I wasn't a push over either.

 

[seashel]

Rather than saying "no" you could try "uh,uh,uh". For some reason shelties seem to respond to this quite well.

When is Luna jumping at your daughter? Is it randomly or during specific times? I know it is hard to be giving your attention to a young child and puppy at the same time so try and predict situations when it might be going to happen. If you can't make it a 'training' situation becuase you need to be focussing on your daughter then pop Luna somewhere safe like her pen or crate with a treat so nothing negative can happen. If you are training, you need to have pretty much 100% attention for the puppy.
Also, rather than telling her not to do something, you might have more sucess in getting her to do something else as an alternative. It's called redirectional training. An example would be getting a dog not to jump up at someone in greeting by teaching it to sit when meeting new people. It can't sit and jump at the same time!

Regarding physical punishment, I would be extreemly cautious. Even as a one off it can be very counter-productive or even disasterous. I have smacked both the older shelties in the past when the occasion demanded it although it was something I would never do lightly. My newest sheltie though, while not over sensitive, would simply not cope with a physical reprimand. While the older dogs would think "OK" and move on, Epic is the kind of dog to take an intentional hit as a mortal wound and it would be a crack in the trust he has of me. I can honestly say that even with the older dogs it really was a pointless thing to do as dogs don't 'get' punishment very well. Shelties seem to be particuarly tuned to hands and a smack can leave them hand shy for a long time. The incident when your mother put her hand out might have worked in the same way as knocking your head on a low doorframe - it doesn't give the message that going through the door is wrong.

I'm sure you'll get though these issues and look back and wonder why you had any worries. Having a puppy (especially a different breed) can be a real culture shock when you are used to having an older dog!

 

[Toffee's Mom]

the point is if you want to have a real bond of trust you can't smack.

If it happens it should only have been by accident and the fact that we're just human, lol. Those days are over, there are training methods that work, like Seashel explains.
If your dog was that sensitive cuz you talk loud a good smack would certainly not do the trick? Good luck getting her to trust you all over again, were you to follow that advice.
imo
Smacks usually only work temporary, plus if your Mom in law did it probably wasn't as heartbreaking as if her guardian did the smacking whom she's just learning to trust.

 

[Mignarda]

Well Im not sure where the smacking talk started lol. But I will say I agree with you. My past dogs were not above a quick smack in the heat of the moment, never out of frustration it was to say I strongly disagree with this behavior.

I was told you couldn't do this with shelties because of their soft nature, but I admit my daughter has two extremely nasty looking cuts on her arms from Luna, Luna jumps up and nips and we've been trying all the soft techniques to stop it and its just not working, well my mother(who is a great trainer but very old school) was over visiting, and Luna was jumping up and nipping at my daughter and my mother used sharp noises at first and then Luna kept it up, and my mom reached out right in mid jump at my daughter and bonked her right on the nose. I was like OMG, she just ruined my dog. lol

Well, Luna shook it off and was completely fine and didn't bother my daughter the rest of the night lol. So I've never been against it, I've always owned very sturdy breeds and telling and ACD to "please quit that" doesn't work, you have to demand and ACD to do something. I was never rough, but I wasn't a push over either.

I think it's the kind of thing you have to play by ear and adjust to the nature of the dog. I once had a Brittany, and I could have clubbed that dog over the head with a 2x4, and she would have thought it some kind of game; my son has a Lab mix who's the same way. My next dog, however, was half Sheltie, with all the sensitivity of the breed, and I don't think I smacked him more than two or three times in the twelve years we had him, simply because it wasn't necessary, and on the occasions where I did it, there was a clear association between the behavior and the smacking. I can't say he ever hated me for it either, for that dog was my constant shadow from the beginning to the end.

I've never smacked my little Dickens, whom I've had for two months now, but then again, if I could have caught him in the act of digging a hole in the yard, I think I would have done it. At this juncture, though, he's so thoroughly conditioned to love and kind words that any sort of telling-off usually brings him right into compliance.

 

[Justicemom]

the point is if you want to have a real bond of trust you can't smack.

If it happens it should only have been by accident and the fact that we're just human, lol. Those days are over, there are training methods that work, like Seashel explains.
If your dog was that sensitive cuz you talk loud a good smack would certainly not do the trick? Good luck getting her to trust you all over again, were you to follow that advice.
imo
Smacks usually only work temporary, plus if your Mom in law did it probably wasn't as heartbreaking as if her guardian did the smacking whom she's just learning to trust.

I agree training in puppies is all about building that trust. Every positive interaction puts money in that trust bank and every negative one takes it out. Depending on your puppy and frankly the breed the trust is built and withdrawn slower or faster.

My young man Birch is about as tough a sheltie as you can find. Seriously he is a crash test dummy. I can push him ,pull him, hug him, squeeze him , lift him , pound on his side, smack his face when he is tugging etc and he will not care. He will fling himself into and off of everything. I have trained him to love this type of handling and associated it with play and fun. I can also raise my voice and yell because I am human and he does not care. Here is the big however, if he doesn't know you well he will stop and go WTF? and yes he will stop his behavior and he will leave or leave you alone and he will not look worried about it but he will not trust you again.

But the point being with you have trust bank built up an occasion accidental smack or raised voice will be forgive. A couple weeks ago, Birch jumped into my lap when he was playing with the other dogs. i did not ask him to. I put him down and he did it again. third time about 10 mins later, I yelled and not so gentlely knocked him onto the floor. He landed hard and the look on his face was one of shock and worry. I had never seen that look from him before. It was one of betrayal. He went and laid down and I felt bad. I ignored him for a few minutes and then asked him to come over which he did but not in his normal happy way. I started to play with him and he didn't want to tug which if you know him never happens. So I played with the tug by myself for awhile and finally he couldn't take and joined in and we were cool just like that. If I didn't have the long history of trust it would have taken much much longer to get it back. Also had that been Ember, I would now be sleeping with one eye open.

I grew up with Labs and then had a JRT mix. So I know what you are talking about but shelties will not tolerate that kind of handling happily. My lab, I could have hit with a brick and she would have went "gee that was fun. duh. Now what?" The great thing about shelties is their responsiveness and how turned into their owners they are. You don't need all that physicalness to get the point across.