How to train for low measurements?

I am also interested in how to get them to measure low.

I am sending my daughter with her trainer to the next show and I am worried since they still don't have one official measurement that there will be some issues last minute, since Dandie measures so close to 14". I want to thin her hair out or have my daughter teach her to stand so that she does not arch her shoulders up to get a high measurement.

Not to cheat, but to teach a relaxed stand so that you can get an accurate measurement :wink2:
 
That's exactly what you want them todo is measure at a relaxed standing height. Which can be difficult. In conformation when being measured I train my dogs with the wicket do they are used to feeling the weight touch their withers. Once they realize and are comfortable I can from there on out get an accurate measurement. But it does take training. Heck for the longest time Six would feel the wicket and make himself taller:rolleyes2: totally the opposite of what we wanted since he'd be fighting the sensation of the wicket. Silly boy!!! Also to get them to drop slightly if you bring the rear legs out a bit I've noticed it drops the withers.
 
Justicemom said:
How strange. Well I guess it has changed alot since then. But lets just say the APBT owner are still the same. Met quite a few at premier went I took Justice and all I can say is wow. No wonder the dogs have such a bad rap with owner like them. We don't have many competing here in MN.
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Yeah, the APBT people are VERY scary! Not necessarily the dogs (my friend does APBT rescue and some of the dogs can be really sweet), but the people. Not your usual conformation or performance crowd!!!! I've lived in the south all my life - way back in the hills, but I've never ever seen so many rednecks (not "good old boys" but true rednecks in hunting clothes) in one place in all my life (even at the state 'coon hunt)!

The UKC experience left me with a definite bad impression on the organization as a whole. I ended up competing more with the GSD people than anyone else - my Neechee was completely unafraid of them, which kinda freaked the judges out when they saw my tiny little guy doing long sits and downs next to dogs that outweighed him by 100 pounds. (Neechee didn't care - his best doggie friend was a huge GSD whom he would regularly tell off.)
 
Been away for a while but wanted to say that I specifically wanted Callie to measure small as she is right on the cusp and depending on how she stands the measure either is flat or floats around 5mm or 1/10 of an inch from the floor, were not talking a massive amount. I would not want her jumping the medium KC height it would be too big for her judging on bone structure (heavy) and build rather than just height. She is in no way quick enough to win unless the speedier dogs get the course wrong and get eliminated, and it wasn't to make me any better than the dogs in the small group, we get lots of clear rounds due to her accuracy but very rarely place due to her speed.
 
take4roll10 said:
Her measuring has nothing to do with other competitors. When you compete in agility, you're competing with yourself because whether you Qualify or not, it is determined by your run, not others.
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Actually, in USDAA Q'ing in Steeplechase *does* depend on the times of other dogs. Oversized dogs that are fast & have gotten into a height class due to what others have described as "generous" measurements very well could make the difference between your dog getting a Q or not & if you missed out on Q'ing for a Regional or Finals place because of this you might question what is fair to all.

In AKC T2B points are also determined by the dog in your class that wins the class.

Cheating might be a strong word to use, but a dogs height is what a dogs height is... There will be variation in measurement on different days by different judges & a measurement or measurements that put a borderline dog in a higher height class might be the difference on being successful or not or long term health of the dog, but no matter where the height cut offs are this will palways be the case. It is unlucky for some dogs & sometimes lucky for others. Fortunately most venues offer an alternative program such as Preferred or Performance & if you are concerned about the stress on your dog those programs may be a better choice for you.
 
One of the big problems with measuring is dog's usually measure higher than their actual height because they are not used to being measured or stacked. So it is definately not cheating to ensure the dog takes its lowest measure. An inch is a huge difference to a dog when they are running all day at full height - it's why the height dog has to be the fittest dog on the team.

Now as for measuring - there is a trick to this. You need to learn how to stack your dog properly. Back legs should be slightly apart and the hocks must be perpendicular to the ground. Dog's that arent used to measuring or being stacked tend to close their legs and hunch their backs in a protective position and this can add an inch or more onto their height - esp with heavy coated dogs because its hard for the measuring judge to see the dog's outline properly (or their back legs under all the fur).

I was lucky to have an AFA judge show me how to stack my dogs for measuring - it dropped them both down a jump height. Over here you can't get a height card until a year of racing so dogs (and handlers) get practice and the heights are more accurate.

Maybe one of the conformation people can say how they get dog's used to being stacked and handled for show
 
*Caro said:
One of the big problems with measuring is dog's usually measure higher than their actual height because they are not used to being measured or stacked. So it is definately not cheating to ensure the dog takes its lowest measure. An inch is a huge difference to a dog when they are running all day at full height - it's why the height dog has to be the fittest dog on the team.

Now as for measuring - there is a trick to this. You need to learn how to stack your dog properly. Back legs should be slightly apart and the hocks must be perpendicular to the ground. Dog's that arent used to measuring or being stacked tend to close their legs and hunch their backs in a protective position and this can add an inch or more onto their height - esp with heavy coated dogs because its hard for the measuring judge to see the dog's outline properly (or their back legs under all the fur).

I was lucky to have an AFA judge show me how to stack my dogs for measuring - it dropped them both down a jump height. Over here you can't get a height card until a year of racing so dogs (and handlers) get practice and the heights are more accurate.

Maybe one of the conformation people can say how they get dog's used to being stacked and handled for show
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Thanks! We have a couple of team members who show conformance also. Oh and a year is the rule here in flyball also (I think agility too).
 
Sealtainn said:
Actually, in USDAA Q'ing in Steeplechase *does* depend on the times of other dogs. Oversized dogs that are fast & have gotten into a height class due to what others have described as "generous" measurements very well could make the difference between your dog getting a Q or not & if you missed out on Q'ing for a Regional or Finals place because of this you might question what is fair to all.

In AKC T2B points are also determined by the dog in your class that wins the class.

Cheating might be a strong word to use, but a dogs height is what a dogs height is... There will be variation in measurement on different days by different judges & a measurement or measurements that put a borderline dog in a higher height class might be the difference on being successful or not or long term health of the dog, but no matter where the height cut offs are this will palways be the case. It is unlucky for some dogs & sometimes lucky for others. Fortunately most venues offer an alternative program such as Preferred or Performance & if you are concerned about the stress on your dog those programs may be a better choice for you.
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I apologize. I'm new to agility and only plan to do JWW & standard AKC, so whether another dog Q's or not, it doesn't affect me.

I think if your dog is on or close to the cut off line and sometimes can measure a a little less, but other times can measure a drop more, then you probably want to make sure you're dog is relaxed, stacked properly and has less hair, so they officially measure less than the cut off. I don't consider this cheating because your dog can measure less or is right on the line. It only makes sense to try and go for the lower jump height.

If your dog is clearly above the cut off and you're just purposely trying to train them to slouch, so they measure below what they really are, then that is unsportsmanlike and is cheating. If you want your dog to jump a lower height then you should run preferred or performance.
 
This is interesting, because Merlin is liable to be borderline small/medium class at a Kennel Club agility comp and it does worry me about him jumping the extra height.

However, the competition we are going to try for in the autumn was recommended by my friend, and within certain heights you can ask for your dog to run a lower jump height. This is the BAA, British Agility Association.

I have a vague feeling that within the KC rules a dog cannot jump a height that is taller than their shoulders? Or maybe I am thinking of something else? In any case, I think that should be simply good animal care/practice.

Let's face it, it's about having fun anyway.
 
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