I need a drink, welcome to my nightmare

[mellie]

Thanks for the update and good news !!! You guys are great-looking out for a dog in need. A big thank you.

 

[Tagg]

I'm not a fan of pit bulls, could care less if the breed disappeared BUT I am a fan of dogs and so would never want to just euthanize because of it's breed. He sounds like a workable handful of testosterone. Amazing with his apparent injuries that he isn't nasty as all get out. It says something for his inherent temperament. No, I wouldn't be exposing my dogs or cats to him with his background but I think that in the right hands this dog might be okay. Sure hope he gets taken by rescue so you can go back to living peacefully with your dogs.
As for the Ontario breed ban, boy that's one slippery slope. It certainly doesn't stop the idiots that want a Macho dog from getting one. It hasn't stopped a lot of them from walking their dogs unmuzzled with spikey collars or worse yet prong collars. It did stop a lady that did pet therapy for years with her two as she knew that taking a muzzled dog into the nursing homes would concern the patients even though they had seen those same dogs for years.
I doff my hat to you for taking care of that dog even after he frightened the heck out of you. I don't know if I could have or whether I would have just called the authorities. I find as I get older I am less inclined to want to put myself in harm's way. Kudos to you and kudos to your neighbours for trying to help this young dog. Hope it all works out well in the end.

 

[HolisticFurMom]

The only thing I dislike about this forum is the breed bashing that happens on here.

The neighbours shouldn't have left town with a new dog at the house - it takes at least 3 months for dogs to settle down and their true temperament to show. Leaving the house so soon after getting the dog would be very stressful for the dog. They also should have a fenced yard - for any dog, but especially an active, athletic one.

If you can't handle a large dog or you're afraid of it, you need to be honest and don't agree to look after it - that's your responsibility.

He's in a new environment - of course he's curious, and of course he's going to want to mark everything. Clearly, he was bored in the garage - it's not a surprise he ripped his bedsheets and ate the cat food. I'm shocked he didn't do it sooner.

If a Golden or a lab had done any of these behaviours (ie. the grip with inhibition), people laugh it off...but when it's a pitbull the automatic reaction is it must be people aggressive, which equals a death sentence. Can they be dangerous? Yes - but so can any dog. The breed I actually am most cautious of is the husky - I have seen far more incidents with huskies than I have with pit bulls.

Your neighbours do sound inexperienced, and even with the best intentions that is clearly a powerful dog. They need a fenced yard, a good vet to get him neutered ASAP, a good trainer, and to commit to meeting this dogs mental and physical needs...but I would say the same thing if it was any dog the dog - but not because of the dog - because of the people. exhibiting these behaviours. If they can't do this, they are better off without

I do realize that my opinion represents the minority here, but I have worked with and trained a wide variety of dog breeds, including many pitbulls and pitbull crosses. I have never had a pit bull try to bite me or show aggression towards me, which is more than I can say for some other dog breeds. I wasn't going to post on this thread...but I just came back tonight from working with a wonderful pit bull who is available for adoption. She would be a fabulous pet or working dog, but we couldn't bring her to our adoption event last weekend because she would have had to be muzzled the entire time because of her breed. She is the nicest, best behaved, most biddable dog at the shelter...but breed bias is working against her. It's not fair.

I couldn't have said it better. This dog was in an unfamilar sitution with unfamiliar people and any dog could/would have acted the same way, but any other breed would get laughed off. What kind of owner EVER goes off and leaves ANY dog in a garage for several days? Someone, they don't even know, letting them out to potty isn't enough. The poor dog was bored senseless. I say the owners should be the ones getting the bad wrap because they're actions are inexscuable.

I am happy to hear the situation has improved, but still not a fan of anyone going off and leaving their dog for several days and only having someone "check on." It's good to hear the people's opinions change. Judging a dog based on breed is no different than judging a person by their skin color. People could argue all day long one race is more vicious than the other due to their criminal arrests and whatnot, but that's missing the point, the point is to change whatever is singling out this behavior towards a group and erradicate it...

Happy to hear you've seen you were being breed bias ... it takes a lot to admit wrongness and change!

 

[2GoodDogs]

These were not the dog's owners! These were nice people who found a bloody stray dog at their door for two days and took him in. Then there was a death in the family and they had to go for the funeral.



This dog is a stray and is being cared for by some nice people who are a little clueless but they don't want the dog to die at the animal shelter. They took the dog on Thursday, had to leave on Friday. In the meantime, they took the dog to the vet to clean his wounds and receive a rabies shot. They didn't know this was going to happen to them, any of it!

 

[tofu pup]

Judging a dog based on breed is no different than judging a person by their skin color.

But if I want a dog to herd sheep, do I buy a Border Collie or a Pointer?

If I want a dog that kills rats, do I get a Jack Russel or a Labrador?

If I want a big, strong dog to pull a cart, do I look for a Berner or a Greyhound?

The reality is that dog breeds exist because humans have selected certain traits in those breeds in order to do a certain job. Want a small, happy companion? They're been working on Papillons for that purpose for centuries. Yes, there may exist cranky Papillons - but by and large, they are what they have been selected to be.

Comparing genetic traits that were selected for a purpose by humans to genetic traits that were selected by nature to fit a certain region of the world is laughable. It's like saying that you shouldn't judge that a hammer is good for driving nails, even though it is a tool designed for that purpose.

Why is it acceptable to say that Shelties are, by and large, small dogs with rough coats who were bred to herd - but not to say that pit-bull-type dogs are, by and large, supremely athletic dogs with a strong grip that were bred to maim other dogs? If Jack Russels still know how to go down a hole and kill vermin, and Border Collies still know how to move sheep, why should we think that - somehow - by magic! - Pit Bulls have forgotten how to grab something and hold on tight?

Really. The Pit Bull Resource Center - a source of sensible, realistic information about what a great breed this can be when managed correctly - recommends a device designed specifically to break your Pit Bull's grip when it is biting onto another dog. Not to put too fine a point on it, but the Papillon Club of America offers no such device*.

Dog aggression is by no means the sole property of the Pit Bull. Any dog is capable of causing serious injury to another dog or a human. But if you had to guess which dog would be more likely to do so, wouldn't you go with the dog that has been deliberately designed for the job?

After all, I wouldn't spend my duck-hunting money on a Basset Hound.

I know this is a rather lengthy post, and we have perhaps exhausted this topic, but it just seems so very odd to me that "Shelties are yappy" is accurate, but "Pit Bulls are aggressive" is breed bias. I agree that they can be lovely dogs, but just as Great Danes need special management to avoid bloat and BCs need special management to avoid their becoming bored and destructive, Pit Bulls need special management to become blossoming, lovely canine citizens. They are different from other breeds - as all breeds are.

*Indeed, the folks who manufacture the break stick offer a stern warning that, because a Pit Bull is unique in biting on and not letting go, you must not attempt to use the break stick on any other breed of dog!

 

[Jess041]

Nicely said, tofu pup!

 

[3Stars]

The problem with your reasoning is that herding, vermin catching, and carting are all positive traits, as are the traits you described for the Papillon.

Aggression is not considered a positive trait by the general public.

A reputation for herding, vermin catching, carting, yapping, and friendliness hasn't resulted in breed bans and subsequent death sentences.

A reputation for aggression has.

Does every sheltie have the desire, temperament, and willingness to become what they were bred to be decades ago - excellent herders? Absolutely not.

So why do people assume the worst about the pit bull - that it has the desire, temperament, and willingness to become what some humans bred them to be decades ago? Even when pitbull fighting was more common, how many dogs do you actually think thrived in that environment? And how many more do you think became "bait dogs" because they didn't have the desire to inflict pain?

The urge to kill vermin is being bred out of JRTs. I've seen many BCs that have less herding instinct than my friends' bulldogs (both bulldogs have HICs). So, just as responsible sheltie breeders are trying to breed for good temperament in shelties, responsible pitbull breeders are trying to breed for good temperament in pitbulls. If you look at a variety of actual breed descriptions, other words used include "willing", "strong desire to please", "good natured", "amusing", "loyal", "affectionate", "obedient", "courageous", and "intelligent".

They definitely aren't the appropriate dog for everyone - but no dog is. If I was placing an average pitbull in a home I would use the same guidelines I use for other large, athletic, confident dog who have a breed reputation for aggression - a list which includes (but is not limited to) Chow Chows, Huskies, Malamutes, Dalmations, Sharpeis, Rottweilers, Boxers, Dobermans, and Bull Terriers. People should be equally cautious of all of these breeds (as well as many more), but the Pitbulls are singled out.

With EVERY breed of dog, it is the owner's responsibility to manage the dog and the behaviour. If an owner feels a need to carry a "breakstick", they had better also have a well-fenced yard (continuing below ground), a lock on their gate, a double collar and leash, and the dog-savvy, physical/mental ability, and sense of responsibility necessary to manage the behaviour effectively.

For as many resources as you can find that talk about negative Pitbull temperament, I can find just as many that talk about a positive temperament. To actually learn about them, go and work with pitbulls - as many as you possible can. You will discover that many of them are amazing dogs with a biddability and willingness that makes them a joy to train and a pleasure to own.

 

[Jess041]

I feel like every time I try to read up on "bully breeds", I either find all positive or all negative, nothing really in between. I feel that I am not educated enough about pitbulls (other than personal experiences) to really say anything specifically about the breed.

I am not uncomfortable around pit bulls. I am uncomfortable around almost ALL big dogs due to being attacked by my family dog as a child, which was a black lab. If it is a big, strong, boisterous dog, I try to keep my distance. It's just out of my comfort zone. Have I met friendly pit bulls? Yes! 2GoodDogs' initial post talked about how strong this dog was.. and then he mouthed her, probably because he has no training and never learned not to. For me, the breed would be irrelevant. I didn't comment on this thread way back when it started, but I would have said, "get out! call animal control!" also.

 

[HolisticFurMom]

The problem with your reasoning is that herding, vermin catching, and carting are all positive traits, as are the traits you described for the Papillon.

Aggression is not considered a positive trait by the general public.

A reputation for herding, vermin catching, carting, yapping, and friendliness hasn't resulted in breed bans and subsequent death sentences.

A reputation for aggression has.

Does every sheltie have the desire, temperament, and willingness to become what they were bred to be decades ago - excellent herders? Absolutely not.

So why do people assume the worst about the pit bull - that it has the desire, temperament, and willingness to become what some humans bred them to be decades ago? Even when pitbull fighting was more common, how many dogs do you actually think thrived in that environment? And how many more do you think became "bait dogs" because they didn't have the desire to inflict pain?

The urge to kill vermin is being bred out of JRTs. I've seen many BCs that have less herding instinct than my friends' bulldogs (both bulldogs have HICs). So, just as responsible sheltie breeders are trying to breed for good temperament in shelties, responsible pitbull breeders are trying to breed for good temperament in pitbulls. If you look at a variety of actual breed descriptions, other words used include "willing", "strong desire to please", "good natured", "amusing", "loyal", "affectionate", "obedient", "courageous", and "intelligent".

They definitely aren't the appropriate dog for everyone - but no dog is. If I was placing an average pitbull in a home I would use the same guidelines I use for other large, athletic, confident dog who have a breed reputation for aggression - a list which includes (but is not limited to) Chow Chows, Huskies, Malamutes, Dalmations, Sharpeis, Rottweilers, Boxers, Dobermans, and Bull Terriers. People should be equally cautious of all of these breeds (as well as many more), but the Pitbulls are singled out.

With EVERY breed of dog, it is the owner's responsibility to manage the dog and the behaviour. If an owner feels a need to carry a "breakstick", they had better also have a well-fenced yard (continuing below ground), a lock on their gate, a double collar and leash, and the dog-savvy, physical/mental ability, and sense of responsibility necessary to manage the behaviour effectively.

For as many resources as you can find that talk about negative Pitbull temperament, I can find just as many that talk about a positive temperament. To actually learn about them, go and work with pitbulls - as many as you possible can. You will discover that many of them are amazing dogs with a biddability and willingness that makes them a joy to train and a pleasure to own.

Well said! This is exactly what my response was to the reply above.

 

[jomuir]

But if I want a dog to herd sheep, do I buy a Border Collie or a Pointer?

If I want a dog that kills rats, do I get a Jack Russel or a Labrador?

If I want a big, strong dog to pull a cart, do I look for a Berner or a Greyhound?

The reality is that dog breeds exist because humans have selected certain traits in those breeds in order to do a certain job. Want a small, happy companion? They're been working on Papillons for that purpose for centuries. Yes, there may exist cranky Papillons - but by and large, they are what they have been selected to be.

Comparing genetic traits that were selected for a purpose by humans to genetic traits that were selected by nature to fit a certain region of the world is laughable. It's like saying that you shouldn't judge that a hammer is good for driving nails, even though it is a tool designed for that purpose.

Why is it acceptable to say that Shelties are, by and large, small dogs with rough coats who were bred to herd - but not to say that pit-bull-type dogs are, by and large, supremely athletic dogs with a strong grip that were bred to maim other dogs? If Jack Russels still know how to go down a hole and kill vermin, and Border Collies still know how to move sheep, why should we think that - somehow - by magic! - Pit Bulls have forgotten how to grab something and hold on tight?

Really. The Pit Bull Resource Center - a source of sensible, realistic information about what a great breed this can be when managed correctly - recommends a device designed specifically to break your Pit Bull's grip when it is biting onto another dog. Not to put too fine a point on it, but the Papillon Club of America offers no such device*.

Dog aggression is by no means the sole property of the Pit Bull. Any dog is capable of causing serious injury to another dog or a human. But if you had to guess which dog would be more likely to do so, wouldn't you go with the dog that has been deliberately designed for the job?

After all, I wouldn't spend my duck-hunting money on a Basset Hound.

I know this is a rather lengthy post, and we have perhaps exhausted this topic, but it just seems so very odd to me that "Shelties are yappy" is accurate, but "Pit Bulls are aggressive" is breed bias. I agree that they can be lovely dogs, but just as Great Danes need special management to avoid bloat and BCs need special management to avoid their becoming bored and destructive, Pit Bulls need special management to become blossoming, lovely canine citizens. They are different from other breeds - as all breeds are.

*Indeed, the folks who manufacture the break stick offer a stern warning that, because a Pit Bull is unique in biting on and not letting go, you must not attempt to use the break stick on any other breed of dog!

Exactly tofu pup. Another thing conveniently left out of bully breed defense is the fact that bully breeds are grossly disproportionally responsible for the vast majority of unprovoked attacks, many of which the owner, if present, is unable to stop. Well beyond their position in dog breeds owned also. This isn't just an issue of bad owners, tho they're big part of it. The larger issue is biology, what's been bred into them isn't easily overcome. Worse yet, the mistreated rescue bully breeds have a double-whammy of biology & often unknown personal history. New owners/rescues take a huge risk adopting these dogs out IMHO. A Sheltie which was mistreated is likely to be fearful, possible even snappy, but let's be real. When is the last time a Sheltie mauled or killed someone? Not in recent history that's when. But pitts/bully breeds maul & kill almost on a daily basis. Having been treated to the vision of a pitt mix attack & nearly kill my lhasa-poo years ago, I admit to being jaded on this topic. Political correctness doesn't change facts nor biology.

The dog's owner had a very hard time getting his pitt mix to release my dog BTW.