Just like the terrible twos!

[take4roll10]

I had a thread a few months back on temper tantrums http://www.sheltieforums.com/showthread.php?t=6190&highlight=temper+tantrums

My Bailey is the queen of temper tantrums. Although, her tantrums are not usually from being touched. If she doesn't get her way or doesn't like what I'm doing, she will talk back to me. She will actually scream at me. When she was a puppy and I would tell her "no", she would literally bark back in anger. Everyone thought it was hilarious, but I knew it wouldn't be so cute when she got older. I just never let her get away with anything. I stick to the "nothing in life is free" method. She has to sit and wait for everything, her food, treats, a toy, to go outside. Also, when she was a puppy and I was holding her, I never put her down until she was calm. Some dogs just really like to test you.

 

[gsalem]

Oh my gosh. Ember, bi blue female, had massive temper tantums as a pup. I seriously was ready to give her away to the first person who asked.

I would set her on the table and put my hands on her shoulders. Firm but not squeezing her and then I would move one hands up to the neck and stop and praise. Then the head, then the muzzle. At the first, sign of a tantum I would halt my hands but never take them off her and go back to the last place she allowed and praise(treat),massage and pet then move back towards the problem area but not as far. One reward was to let her go. I would never put her on the ground if she was acting up. I would just firmly but gentlely hold her around the shoulder until she calmed down and then put her down. Ember does not like being held to your body or squeeze so the pressure of your hold had to be just hard enough to hold her and lighten the second she didn't wiggle. Go slow and don't jerk your hands back and forth or on and off of them. With the mouth, I try to start at the corners of the mouth and work forward and move my hand under the chin then the side and then the thumb on the top rather then whole hand on top of the muzzle right away. I use this with puppies everyday and get really good exams on 9 out of 10 young puppies.

She would also throw tantums when walking and I would just ignore her and wait for her to finish and then go on my way. Your right once they realize that you won't react to the behavior, the behavior fades. The key is never react or redirect it before they get into the tantum part.

Ember sounds a lot like Duncan. I think your touching method is a great idea. It sort of sounds like t-touch. I'll give it a try with Duncan although I don't have a groom table. Hopefully I can do it on the floor with him.
Thank you!

 

[gsalem]

Gibbs is much more passive aggressive then all of your puppies! He doesn't throw outward tantrums, he just pretends I don't exist. If I'm giving him commands, he will look away. I can be right in front of him, and he'll still turn his head away. When he is paying attention and I give him a command, he will stare me down and sloooooooooooooowly do what i ask. If we're walking and he doesn't want to go, he will do the butt plant on the ground, paws braced and then looks away from me. Bad puppies!

My aussie was just like Gibbs! Hopefully I can stand my ground enough for Duncan to stop his little puppy hissy fits.

 

[gsalem]

OMGosh..we have the same here with Mia.I ca'nt even begin to examine what is going on in her mouth,unless I give her something to chew on,and look real quick.

And forget handling her head or ears.It's not good.Her thrashing is not only dangerous,but she could hurt herself in the process.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciate.This is the #1 issue we have with her.

I was trying what we did with Jasper.At one time when he was very young,he would start thrasihng as we would put him down on the floor,or try to do anything close (holding him)He would throw himself and wriggle so.
so I gently just held him close until the squirring stopped.and it worked like a charm.
So far..not working with Mia.Any ideas?

They're more like each other than I thought

 

[gsalem]

Ginny still tries to struggle when we put her down. Its MUCH better than when she was a pup but its something we've never been able to fully break her of. We used the hugging technique that MBFrench mentioned.

Ginny also threw temper tantrums as a pup but she gradually grew out of it. She threw tantrums for a variety of reasons, mainly when she wasn't getting her way. She was a pup that could not be allowed to get away with anything. She was constantly trying to push our buttons.

Sadie had a real problem with having her face touched in general when she was a pup. She would immediately go into panic mode. Not sure why, the breeder was great about handling the pups, including face touching and opening their mouths.

What broke Sadie of it was I hugged her to me and gently placed my hand over her muzzle. She tried thrashing around for a few seconds, let out a huge whimper/sigh, then that was it. She suddenly realized she wasn't being killed and stopped squirming. Touching her face and opening her mouth were never issues again.

Thanks Melissa. I think I'll try the hand over the muzzle technique and see how it goes. Knowing that Ginny grew out of tantrums gives me a lot of hope with Duncan.

 

[gsalem]

Che did same tantrums when he did not want to walk in that direction- he would lay on the ground- "you can't make me" attitude... I had to pick him up, walk few steps in my direction and then he would follow...
do not let him get away with murder...
Practice a lot control games- watch me and targeting, also leave it and variations of it- walk past treats on the floor, putting treat in your hand and close it every time until dog sits calmly and waits for you to give it to him, sit for every reward they get.

We learned "leave it" at our last obedience class and we're working on it. He's pretty good at watch me. Thank you!

 

[gsalem]

Not much different then with kids. Some kids have temper tantrums, some don't.

Very true!

 

[gsalem]

I had a thread a few months back on temper tantrums http://www.sheltieforums.com/showthread.php?t=6190&highlight=temper+tantrums

My Bailey is the queen of temper tantrums. Although, her tantrums are not usually from being touched. If she doesn't get her way or doesn't like what I'm doing, she will talk back to me. She will actually scream at me. When she was a puppy and I would tell her "no", she would literally bark back in anger. Everyone thought it was hilarious, but I knew it wouldn't be so cute when she got older. I just never let her get away with anything. I stick to the "nothing in life is free" method. She has to sit and wait for everything, her food, treats, a toy, to go outside. Also, when she was a puppy and I was holding her, I never put her down until she was calm. Some dogs just really like to test you.

Thanks Randi! I read through the previous thread. Very interesting and kind of good to know that Duncan isn't really that unusual. I've been doing the NILIF thing too and I can tell it's starting to work. I don't usually have treats on walks but maybe I should.