Life's a stage and my sheltie runs the show...

Nova

Forums Regular
Okay, so, as the title so aptly indicates- my 8 month old sheltie is STUBBORN.

She has very selective hearing. Basically, if she feels like listening to you, she will. If not, she won't.

Here are some specifics:

Problem 1:
Trying to get her to bring her ball inside when we're done playing, or trying to get her to drop it at my feet instead of laying down with it/dropping it ten feet away from me.

What does she do?
She looks at me, looks at the ball, looks at me, looks at the ball, (so on and so forth until a squirrel runs by). Sometimes she looks away, up, down, anything to avoid eye contact, like "PFFFT yea right, you threw it, why don't you go get it."

What do I do?
When I encourage her to "go get it" in a chipper voice, she looks away from me, from side to side. SOMETIMES she will decide to get it and bring it over. If she doesn't, I clap my hands and squeal and slap my legs like a special kind of lunatic. I have tried treats, but all she wants to do is eat the treat- she doesn't seem to make a connection between a ball in my hands (her toy, mind you), and a treat in her mouth (gosh that sounds bad). I have tried being firm, and trying to put the ball in her mouth (because you're not supposed to repeat your commands), but she clamps those furry little jaws shut.

Problem 2:
Doing tricks without a treat.
It ain't Halloween every day, and Nova won't be getting treats every time she does a trick. However, without a treat, she does no tricks. And trust me, she does know them. Some of the tricks that involve strenuous effort like laying down on her side to play dead (life is so hard) she absolutely refuses to do unless she is guaranteed a treat. I heard that is not a good thing, because your dog should listen to you because you're the boss, not because you bribe them.

What does she do?
She looks away, up, down, etc, and won't do the trick when I tell her to.
She also thinks that the trick business is like a transaction- she buys a treat with a trick, whenever she wants to.

What do I do?
I don't treat her for doing random tricks because I want her to understand she only gets a treat when I tell her to do a trick, and even then, she may not. But she's too darn smart, and has caught on, and knows now that sometimes she won't get a treat, so most of the time she blows me off. If I do happen to have a treat and she still decides it's not worth it, I usually just walk away (I know this is wrong, so that's why I'm here, to learn to do it right).


Problem 3:
Won't eat the healthy/so-expensive-you'd-think-it-was-made-of-gold dog food.

What she does:
Looks at me like I'm trying to poison/play a joke on her.

What I do:
Pretend like I don't notice her hopeful stares for tastier food/disgruntled glare. Sometimes I encourage her to eat it, and then she smells it again, as if to say, "yep, it still sucks."

What I'm trying:
*Right now, I've got her enrolled in a "basic manners" doggie course, and I'm hoping that will give her some practice not in being polite, but in learning to obey my commands and respect mah authoritah. We begin on October 18th.

*I exercise her rigorously for at least an hour every day when I come home from work, and sometimes more. I don't think she's hurting for attention either, cos there are four people (my family) in the home at various times, so she's only by herself for about 6 hours at a time (can't be helped- we all work different hours).

*I mix the should-be-made-of-gold-for-that-price dog food in with the canned wet dog food- just enough to taste. This gets her to choke more of it down, but not by much. When she was a pup (<8 weeks old), the person taking care of her had her eating Kibbles & Bits.


I mean, I know it could be worse and all- with her running away from me and generally wreaking havoc, and I'm very thankful that she follows rules- but all those extra fun things Shelties rock at she refuses to do unless she feels like it. She also used to be really stubborn with things like going to the bathroom outside without me right next to her, but she's gotten over that so I'm hoping these hurdles are easy to jump, too.

I really would like to hear from people who have had stubborn dogs like this and know how to fix it.

Although, I'm sure the neighbors get a kick out of watching me make a fool of myself in the backyard. :lol:
 
Congratulations, you are the proud owner of a teenager! :winkgrin:

Enrolling her in Basic Manners class and exercising her will definitely help with the teenage phase. Just keep up the good work and hopefully she will pass through this phase with ease. Good luck!
 
I don't know...sounds like she's doing a great job of...TRAINING YOU!!!:biggrin2:

Keep working, she'll get it. She's a sheltie!
 
He He!!! Welcome to the teenager phase!!! I can relate....I have a 9 mos. old and I have affectionately nicknamed her my "DEVIL DOG".:yes: Hang it there......I'm on my third puppy and I can truthfully say they do get better. It's takes till they're about 2 yrs. old though
 
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been there, done that:biggrin2:
She is not being stubborn! She is being a dog and she is perfect at being a dog! nuff said.
My guess you have been training by luring, your criteria is inconsistent, your timing is missing and reinforcement is on vending machine schedule.
I bet classes will help you/ not your dog, mind you, your dog is perfect as it is/ a great deal.:razz:
Not trying to make fun really, I have started with similar, took me a while to get it, that is why am saying take as many classes as you can afford, read all books in library on dog training, rent all doggie training DVD you can find if you really want to learn.
Clicker training might help.
 
Classes will definately help, and a clicker may also help.

If she is looking around then it means she doesn't understand what you are asking her to do. Try breaking things down more. For example teach her to give the ball to you as a separate command, try something like getting her to pick up the ball and then saying 'get it' and take it from her so she understands 'get it' means give the ball to you. Make sure you are consistent with the words you use. My female knows 'where's the ball' means locate the ball (not neccessarily pick it up) and 'get the ball' means bring the ball to me - they aren't the same thing to her.

I'm not sure you should think about the dog doing something because you are the boss. When you are training them treats help with learning and so they associate something good with doing that action. Dogs don't really reason why they should do things - they are more likely do them because they feel good (esp if its something unnatural you are getting them to do). Clickers can help with this sort of training, and once she gets the hang of the trick try stringing out how often she gets the treat. Start with every second time and lengthen from there.

Is the expensive food you are talking about dry food? Most dogs will prefer moist food over dry food. Try soaking the dry food for a while, warm it up in the microwave (heated food smells better) or sprinkle a bit of garlic powder or something smelly on it.

Don't expect her to be too much like the sheltie she will grow into yet. She is still a puppy and still developing her personality, but it will come.
 
wow, can i say, im glad im not the only one dealing with this right now. Our little man just turned 8 months old yesterday. he swear he has selective hearing too! :yes: i will tell him to come, or sit, and he will just look at me like "yeah, i hear ya, doesnt mean im gunna do it!" and walks away!:lol: we need to work with him on training without treats too. i think he is getting better at doing them without a tasty, but still needs work.
 
You might also investigate what the other four are feeding when you are not there. She might be getting scraps and treats a lot when you are not there.
 
My guess you have been training by luring, your criteria is inconsistent, your timing is missing and reinforcement is on vending machine schedule.
Clicker training might help.

Not sure what you mean by luring...as for vending machine schedule- if you mean to say that I give her a treat for doing nothing, that's definitely not the case.

My criteria certainly aren't inconsistent, otherwise she would have learned nothing so far.

This is my third sheltie, and neither of my other two were like this! Of course, this is also the first sheltie I decided *not* to spay as of yet...might that have anything to do with it?
 
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