litermates fighting over rawhide and food

[ChampLucy]

Our 2 Shelties are 14 months old and just recently started fighting over some things. They are male/female neutered and spayed and litermates. Up until they were around a year old we could give them rawhide....special chewy treats.....pig ears....anything and they would sit in the same room and chew on their treats (would sometimes trade off and chew on each others and then go back to their own) and were perfectly fine. Same with mealtimes. They would eat out of 2 bowls side by side no fighting or anything (would eat out of each others bowls sometimes). So as I said when they were around a year old they started fighting when we gave them chewy treats/rawhide/etc. We would give them each one and they would go lay down with them and start chewing and less than a minute later at least one of them would start snarling and growling and then they would be in an all out brawl. So we would take the "treat" away. Now we rarely give them anything and when we do they are separated in different room with gates up. When this "fighting" first started with their "treats" they were still fine with eating their meals side by side UNTIL I switched from puppy food to dog food. Well they just LOVED their new dog food sooooooo much that they started the snarling and growling and all out brawls over their dishes of food. So now they are separated in different rooms with gates up for meal times as well. As soon as I start pouring food in the bowls (and they are still up on the counter) they will start showing their teeth at each other and snarling some days. Of course I don't give them the food until they are separated. Then they will eat but still stare at each other through the gate in the beginning while they are eating. As soon as they have eaten their fill or even just half of their food they are fine again and gates can be opened and they will even eat out of each other's bowls and no growling or fighting or anything. They have NEVER harmed each other during these "fights" but we are still concerned.

Is there ANYTHING we can do??? They get along WONDERFULLY any other time. They do NOT fight over their toys or anything else.

Has anyone else experienced this with their male/female fixed litermates? Is there anything else we can do besides seperating them? Can we teach them to eat together in peace?

Julie

 

[Emmasmom]

I would keep them separated at meal, treat times. I had to do that with Liam and Emma when I first got Liam. Emma always ate just inside the living room. Liam I would gate in the laundry room. Now in our new house, Liam eats just around the corner from the kitchen in the laundry room/entryway. Emma eats in the kitchen. If he gets too close she has snapped at him, but he is good at staying away when I tell him too. They are aunt and nephew, less than three months apart.

Now to decide where to feed Natalie.

 

[SheltieChe]

no you can not teach them to eat together in peace.
Separate when they eat. It will get worse if you don't.
Give them MANY chewies at one time, i.e. 2-3 per each dog if you want to try in same room under your supervision

 

[Tagg]

This is when I do believe in pack respect between human and dog. I would feed them either side of the gate with some distance between them and stand there watching for any body language. As soon as the start of anything - like a stiffening of the body, head turn etc - happened, I would growl, CUT IT OUT. You don't have to be loud, just firm. Usually it is one that instigates the problem. I would worry that this will escalate to toys, attention from you, greeting at the door etc. They need to learn that you are the decision maker. I am all for positive reinforcement but that doesn't mean I will let the dogs make a decision about how we are all going to live together. Make sure you praise the dogs if they look at you.

 

[rosesandlace]

Wow ... sorry to hear this. I have 2 littermates - male and female (spayed & neutered) - they just turned 3 and they get along famously all the time. They love to chase each other and often push each other around but never growl ... it is always in fun. At mealtimes they never growl or fight - each to his/her own dish. We don't give them rawhide because my brother saved our first Sheltie (now at Rainbow Bridge) from choking to death on a rawhide toy.

Perhaps some sort of trainer or your breeder can give you advice on how to rectify the situation.

Good luck!

 

[famous seamus]

My two boys were always great together, meal times. But when I had a boy and a girl, forget about it. I had to separate. My girl was always up in my poor boys face and got really snarly and would wolf her food to go and get his. Separation is the best, cause as they said in this forum, it won't get better. They are vying for top dog I guess, at least that is the way that it seemed with my two.

All dogs were spayed/neutered.


Good luck,
Kate

 

[labgirl]

Hormones and adolescence, I'm afraid. They go from being mellow puppies, to adult dogs and food is such a high priority resource they feel they have to defend it from each other. I have the same with Cadbury and Merlin over bones, but Merlin is definitely the fiestier one. The other day I had 5 bones out for them and he had a tantrum and hoarded all the bones and wouldn't let Cadbury near.

However, I am in charge of this house and I DO NOT tolerate such behaviour. They have to share, though I do not allow stealing.

So this is how it works. I give them a bone each and I supervise them eating. If one of them goes to take the others bone they get told off and made to go back to their bone - if they continue to push their luck the offender gets shut in the kitchen behind the stairgate. I have never let them get to a stage to actually fight, though Merlin has snapped at Cadbury, but they know I am in charge and if I tell them off I usually get both dogs at my feet looking sorry.

Some days are better than others. Usually when they are more tired they are more amenable. If they won't listen bones are removed. I am the 'bone-keeper' and they only get them on my say-so, same applies to any food items.

Since I first had Merlin I have been careful to not allow stealing between them. They eat side-by-side from seperate bowls, but I always supervise and no one is allowed to check out the other's bowl until they are both finished. They have to 'sit and wait' before eating also.

I have also taught them that I say who gets a treat (this is more necessary for Cadbury), so for instance I am cutting up carrots and the boys want a piece, I will say to Cadbury, "Merlin's" and make it clear that he is not to touch that piece and then I get him a piece and it is "Cadbury's". It works quite well, but you do need to be firm and the dogs do need to know you mean it.

But do be aware this is very normal, natural behaviour, even for litter-mates. Food is precious, even to a pet dog that is regularly fed and they will defend their resources. You need to step in and make it clear that no one is going to get their food stolen and so defuse the situation - or just feed/give treats separately.

Of course, I have the numpty squad here and if I separate them to have bones they just stare at each other through the stairgate forlornly and refuse to touch their bones until they are reunited.

 

[missjenneygirl]

Saying their name is exactly the way we do it, when there are all 10 looking at you. It would be total chaos if I did it any other way. The adults are very good, the youngsters not so much. One will usually stand their front feet on the back of one of the adults to get closer to my hand. It is very funny.
But, I must say, all bets are off if it's pizza "bones"!

If they see a pizza box coming across the farmer's porch, even though they are outside, they get very excited. They all want to go to bed early, because they know bedtime in their crates means PIZZA BONES!! instead of the usual good night, old dry hard bisquit cookie. No way could we eat pizza with them in the house!

 

[corbinam]

Hormones and adolescence, I'm afraid. They go from being mellow puppies, to adult dogs and food is such a high priority resource they feel they have to defend it from each other. I have the same with Cadbury and Merlin over bones, but Merlin is definitely the fiestier one. The other day I had 5 bones out for them and he had a tantrum and hoarded all the bones and wouldn't let Cadbury near.

However, I am in charge of this house and I DO NOT tolerate such behaviour. They have to share, though I do not allow stealing.

So this is how it works. I give them a bone each and I supervise them eating. If one of them goes to take the others bone they get told off and made to go back to their bone - if they continue to push their luck the offender gets shut in the kitchen behind the stairgate. I have never let them get to a stage to actually fight, though Merlin has snapped at Cadbury, but they know I am in charge and if I tell them off I usually get both dogs at my feet looking sorry.

Some days are better than others. Usually when they are more tired they are more amenable. If they won't listen bones are removed. I am the 'bone-keeper' and they only get them on my say-so, same applies to any food items.

Since I first had Merlin I have been careful to not allow stealing between them. They eat side-by-side from seperate bowls, but I always supervise and no one is allowed to check out the other's bowl until they are both finished. They have to 'sit and wait' before eating also.

I have also taught them that I say who gets a treat (this is more necessary for Cadbury), so for instance I am cutting up carrots and the boys want a piece, I will say to Cadbury, "Merlin's" and make it clear that he is not to touch that piece and then I get him a piece and it is "Cadbury's". It works quite well, but you do need to be firm and the dogs do need to know you mean it.

But do be aware this is very normal, natural behaviour, even for litter-mates. Food is precious, even to a pet dog that is regularly fed and they will defend their resources. You need to step in and make it clear that no one is going to get their food stolen and so defuse the situation - or just feed/give treats separately.

Of course, I have the numpty squad here and if I separate them to have bones they just stare at each other through the stairgate forlornly and refuse to touch their bones until they are reunited.

This is exactly the routine at our house!

 

[mbfrench]

no you can not teach them to eat together in peace.
Separate when they eat. It will get worse if you don't.
Give them MANY chewies at one time, i.e. 2-3 per each dog if you want to try in same room under your supervision

I totally disagree with you.

I have 4,that eat within a foot or so from one another.It can be controlled,and learned.

These pups here,automatically go to thier own dishes.I measure thier food,and usually have them set on the floor when I let them in from morning potty break.
They go to thier own dishs every time,they don't even think to wander to another.

When they are done,they exit the kitchen one by one.They all eat at differant paces.

So it can be done. I think if it was an issue here,the food would be removed from the equation at the precise moment it started.And not returned to the floor until they decided to eat in peace.

When treats are involved,we give to the alpha first,and follow the line downwards.
So it's:
Earnhardt,Trapp,Jasper,Mia.

This includes any type of treat,whether it be a bone,or popcorn etc. If I have all 4 sitting near me,popcorn is givin to alpha first,the rest have learned to wait thier turn.

All of them can enjoy a treat within the same room.Depending on what it is,Earnhardt is always the first to finish.Even with a tough rawhide.

The shelties tend to nibble. Earnhardt would not even think to step into another dogs space for a treat,he knows better.

With that said,in early learning stages here with any pup we are quite tough when it comes to teaching manners. They learn to listen to verbal from us.

No fighting,growling,squabbles are tolerated in this home.I can't possibly alow it,and I don't tolerate it.