Most popular size of Shelties?

[KarenCurtis]

Size is one of the things that characterizes the Shetland Sheepdog - it is small. In particular, it is smaller than a Collie (and likewise, the ideal Collie should be large enough that there is no confusion whatsoever at first glance as to whether it's a Collie or a Sheltie). At the same time, the ideal Sheltie is not so small that there could be any confusion as to whether it is a Toy dog.

Breeding to the standard is extremely important, I think, and your comments are excellent. Sandstorm is oversized, but definately not confused with a collie for those who are familiar with both. SS is 18 inches, 32 lbs.

Size is something that Sheltie breeders have been working with for a very long time. I think we've gotten better at controlling it. Those who are conscientiously breeding to the Standard will still get some over- or under-sized puppies - but with some care and good genes it's quite possible to produce a lovely, typey, in-size Sheltie.

Sandstorms breeder has been breeding for 30 years and has bred many show standard dogs. Sandstorm and one other litter mate were oversized. Sandstorms parents, grandparents and great grandparents were in size. No "byb" here- just genetics. Somewhere, Sandstorm had relatives who were oversized. Those genes show up somewhere!

 

[Justicemom]

No "byb" here- just genetics. Somewhere, Sandstorm had relatives who were oversized. Those genes show up somewhere!

I agree with you there. Ember(13 1/3") has a litter brother who is 16 3/4 " and Diva(13.5") has a litterbrother that is 17.5". The first direct common relative for both of them is they great grandmother who was 14". I know that bitch had all size puppies(most under 15") except one who was a 20" Tri. First time I saw him I didn't believe he was related. I am convinced that is where the height gene comes from.

 

[KarenCurtis]

I agree with you there. Ember(13 1/3") has a litter brother who is 16 3/4 " and Diva(13.5") has a litterbrother that is 17.5". The first direct common relative for both of them is they great grandmother who was 14". I know that bitch had all size puppies(most under 15") except one who was a 20" Tri. First time I saw him I didn't believe he was related. I am convinced that is where the height gene comes from.

I find genetics really interesting-in humans too. If we all trace our genetics, we are sure to find surprises!!

 

[Sumac3890]

I like the taller ones. Katie was 18 inches and Zak is 17 1/2 and sweet Maggie is 14. My next one I would really like to be at least 16 inches just so when playing with Zak it is not to small.

 

[BarbV]

Like others have said, I'm a firm believer in breeding to standard size. If you want bigger, you might as well have a collie. And I abhor the latest trends in breeding mini-Shelties! So harmful to their bodies.

For some reason, breeding to size seems to be particuarly difficult in Shelties. In a given litter, some will go under, some will go over and some will be just so. I attribute this to the fact that the breed it still relatively young - barely 100 years old. It takes time to stabilize the gene and only gets worse when rogue breeders go out and do their own thing.

I do believe though that with diligence - i.e. by putting over or under sized pups on non-breeding contracts; by educating the public on the Sheltie standard, and how to choose a breeder, etc., we can eventually gain more consistency in the breed.

 

[KarenCurtis]

I do believe though that with diligence - i.e. by putting over or under sized pups on non-breeding contracts; by educating the public on the Sheltie standard, and how to choose a breeder, etc., we can eventually gain more consistency in the breed.

I agree with everything you posted except for some of the above. Even with consistency and choosing a reputable breeder, over and under size will still happen-even when breeding to the standard. It just may not happen as much.

 

[BarbV]

I agree with everything you posted except for some of the above. Even with consistency and choosing a reputable breeder, over and under size will still happen-even when breeding to the standard. It just may not happen as much.

That's my point - the breed is still young by breed standards. Over and under will continue until the Sheltie breed meets the same maturity as other breeds that have been around for hundreds of years.

Of course, like all breeds, some dogs will not meet the standard; but if we continue to be diligent in breeding our Shelties, then I think eventually we can eliminate the gross diversity in size that we currently deal with.

It would help, I think, if the UK standard and North American Standard would align. The UK standard demands a slighly smaller stature and finer bone. I think this is correct and is what distinguishes Shelties from Collies.

My tuppence worth.

 

[KarenCurtis]

You are right, we do have the same points! I also think that we need to get the over and under sizes more standard. But that is what serious breeders are trying to do. Then there are still oops! dogs. Our breeder was really amazed about Sandstorm, and he was the last puppy because of his size! He was also her favorite. The underdog!

 

[ClantyreSheltie]

For some reason, breeding to size seems to be particuarly difficult in Shelties. In a given litter, some will go under, some will go over and some will be just so. I attribute this to the fact that the breed it still relatively young - barely 100 years old. It takes time to stabilize the gene and only gets worse when rogue breeders go out and do their own thing.

Don't blame it on the age of the breed. Blame it on the fact that size is polygenetic. It's not just one simple gene that determines size. It's several genes, plus some more, plus outside influence. We also add nutrition and gender into that equation, and it's a crap shoot.

We know that given identical sets of genes, a male dog will grow 1 inch taller than a female dog. So really, any bitch over 15 1/8 inches tall is the genetic equivalent of an oversized male, so do we remove them from our breeding programs as well? How about a 13 7/8 inch male, that is equivalent to a 12 7/8 inch bitch?

Removing over/undersized dogs from a breeding program in no way guarantees only having insize dogs. It's way more complicated than that. And quite frankly, size (and to some extent, color) is the last thing we should worry about. How about we produce healthy, physically and mentally sound, happy dogs that look like Shelties? How about producing dogs with good fronts who can run agility into their teenage years? How about producing dogs that can actually work a farm?

I think it says a lot about our breed that we can complain about size as a major thing. That means we aren't complaining about bloat (big dogs), or seizures (Poodles, BCs), or cancer (goldens), or breathing problems (all the squishy face dogs), or major skeletal issues.

But we should not cause these problems by removing so many genes from our limited gene pool based on something as arbitrary as size.

 

[Sumac3890]

Barb when I said taller I was thinking at least 16 inches. I don't want a huge one or a little tiny 13 inch either. I think if its an inch over is okay. I know my breeder has a time with Zak's mom not whelping insize puppies every litter so this time she went with a male that is 14 inches and has proven to be a size controller.