Hanne
Forums Sage
Lisa - I totally agree
Never use electric fence or similar things at all
- it is a crime - especially against a small sensitive breeding
There is no learning in it, only destroying its mind
My sheltie totally ignored me and ran across the street!!! She has never done this before
Never use electric fence or similar things at all
- it is a crime - especially against a small sensitive breeding
There is no learning in it, only destroying its mind
VallejoSheltie
Forums Enthusiast
Nothing is 100%.
I've seen dogs climb 8' up into trees, and over chainlink fences.
I don't think efences are close to 100%, however its arguably as much if not more of a crime to take a dog and over its entire llife shackle it to a line every time it goes outside.
efences Do entail learning, if the owner actually understands how science works and behavior, and bothers to read instructions.
Anyone who disagrees probably missed that elementary class on Pavlov...
Here's a decent article with the pros and cons which seem reasonable: https://www.caninejournal.com/invisible-fence-collar/
I would/will be much happier re-training my dog to learn to avoid the front yard border at a lower level, and then ramp it up so that its actually enough disincentive to get near it in the future.
Alternatively, we can restrict Sheltie/dog ownership to those who can afford to install a physical fence, or make it a crime to ever let your dog off the leash.
Keeping a dog perenially leashed whenever it is outside seems cruel and unusual treatment for an animal that was born to be free.
As an aside, I'm not sure exactly what can go wrong with the efence. Its a simple device that radiates a signal using the fence as an antenna.
At a certain distance I believe there are models that will beep, and then if the dog gets closer it will administer a light shock.
The problems most likely are due to owners who don't check the battery/operation regularly, or who train to just the level that the dog initially avoids the fence.
That level is enough for normal avoidance, however simply too low for a dog that is in an excited state.
I don't like to see any animal in pain, however we're talking low level shocks similar to one you'd get from a TENS unit off Amazon, or like licking the top of a 9v battery.
My dog has hurt himself far worse simply being a dog and doing dog things with other dogs.
This is far less in intensity and duration, while instilling a very real potential life-saving behavior modification.
I've seen dogs climb 8' up into trees, and over chainlink fences.
I don't think efences are close to 100%, however its arguably as much if not more of a crime to take a dog and over its entire llife shackle it to a line every time it goes outside.
efences Do entail learning, if the owner actually understands how science works and behavior, and bothers to read instructions.
Anyone who disagrees probably missed that elementary class on Pavlov...
Here's a decent article with the pros and cons which seem reasonable: https://www.caninejournal.com/invisible-fence-collar/
I would/will be much happier re-training my dog to learn to avoid the front yard border at a lower level, and then ramp it up so that its actually enough disincentive to get near it in the future.
Alternatively, we can restrict Sheltie/dog ownership to those who can afford to install a physical fence, or make it a crime to ever let your dog off the leash.
Keeping a dog perenially leashed whenever it is outside seems cruel and unusual treatment for an animal that was born to be free.
As an aside, I'm not sure exactly what can go wrong with the efence. Its a simple device that radiates a signal using the fence as an antenna.
At a certain distance I believe there are models that will beep, and then if the dog gets closer it will administer a light shock.
The problems most likely are due to owners who don't check the battery/operation regularly, or who train to just the level that the dog initially avoids the fence.
That level is enough for normal avoidance, however simply too low for a dog that is in an excited state.
I don't like to see any animal in pain, however we're talking low level shocks similar to one you'd get from a TENS unit off Amazon, or like licking the top of a 9v battery.
My dog has hurt himself far worse simply being a dog and doing dog things with other dogs.
This is far less in intensity and duration, while instilling a very real potential life-saving behavior modification.
Darren
Forums Enthusiast
As with anything there will be opinions either way, I've seen a "Humane" E-fence 'fail' as the dog became so excited it just ran straight through. It give a little jump as it went through but was so 'pumped up' it then continued off down the street (luckily it was caught without incident a few hours later)
This and other things put me against this kind of thing. As mentioned these little guys and gals are very sensitive so I would hate even giving small pulses/shocks. Since I've seen and heard about the gentle ones failing that only leaves stronger ones. They are just a no to me as heck aint no-one ever going to even slightly hurt my little family member, even if it is supposedly for his own good.
The article also raises a good point thateven if it works, it allows any kind of danger inside the boundery potentially trapping or exposing the little guy/gal. Yes fences are more expensive but once locked I would feel more secure about outside forces getting at my dog.
Saying all that I don't have a huge yard for Monty to run free in which is why I drive miles into the middle of no-where to give him a little freedom. Even without that though, I have a 15m extendable lead and he enjoys himself just as much running back and forth on that as when free. Once again it's a case of each to their own as I see nothing "cruel and unusual" about him playing on his leash. To be honest Monty even when free is never more than 15m away so it does not make a difference apart from I know I can keep him 99% safer when on a leash.
What-ever choice anyone makes, the goal at the end of the day, no matter what anyones view is, your little dog should be home safe and protected from ALL harm. That's the job of any pet owner and they know their own pet, home, neighborhood better than anyone. It's up to the individual to make an informed decision either way on their circumstances which results in the dog being as safe and happy as possible.
ghggp
Moderator
Amen!
Sharon7
Moderator
Well said, Darren. I personally know people whose Lab continually failed the electronic fence deterrent and yes, it does let any other kind of critter or person IN. Not an option for us. But California generally has privacy fencing, 6 foot or more around each backyard. Ours has a 7 foot wall on 2 sides and about a 9 foot fence on the third.
Hanne
Forums Sage
I so agree with you Darran 
Hanne
Forums Sage
I doubt it
Pavlov's experiments on dogs were
actually really vicious and would never go ethical today,
but nevertheless he received the Nobel Prize in Psychology in the early 1900s.
Pavlov's experiment was actually rather cruel, but it is often left out in psychology
because it is simply too bad to talk about.
Fortunately, things have changed since Pavlov - think you should get acquainted with
Anders Hallgren is a trained psychologist and the first dog psychologist
in Europe and probably also in the rest of the world.
He has more than 50 years of experience as a dog psychologist and trainer
Already in his first books of 1971+74, he made up for the punitive
and militant training methods of the time.
Today, his soft training method, based on praise and reward,
is recognized by scientists and experts around the world.
There is a reason why this law applies from 2000 in Denmark
§ 1. The use of any remote-controlled or automatic-acting attachment
that is affixed to animals and which causes the animal electrical shock
or other significant disadvantage when activated, is forbidden.
It is us who are responsible for our animals not being harmed
and using efences is absolutely not to be responsible
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Piper's mom
Moderator
I would hardly compare Pavlov to an E fence (and yes, I have heard of him as most have) but did you know this?
Pavlov’s research originally had little to do with psychology; it focussed on the ways in which eating excited salivary, gastric, and pancreatic secretions. To do that, he developed a system of “sham” feeding. Pavlov would remove a dog’s esophagus and create an opening, a fistula, in the animal’s throat, so that, no matter how much the dog ate, the food would fall out and never make it to the stomach. By creating additional fistulas along the digestive system and collecting the various secretions, he could measure their quantity and chemical properties in great detail. That research won him the 1904 Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine. But a dog’s drool turned out to be even more meaningful than he had first imagined: it pointed to a new way to study the mind, learning, and human behavior.
So my question is this...why would you want to modify your dogs behavior by doing something that causes them pain?
Pavlov’s research originally had little to do with psychology; it focussed on the ways in which eating excited salivary, gastric, and pancreatic secretions. To do that, he developed a system of “sham” feeding. Pavlov would remove a dog’s esophagus and create an opening, a fistula, in the animal’s throat, so that, no matter how much the dog ate, the food would fall out and never make it to the stomach. By creating additional fistulas along the digestive system and collecting the various secretions, he could measure their quantity and chemical properties in great detail. That research won him the 1904 Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine. But a dog’s drool turned out to be even more meaningful than he had first imagined: it pointed to a new way to study the mind, learning, and human behavior.
So my question is this...why would you want to modify your dogs behavior by doing something that causes them pain?
Hanne
Forums Sage
Yes, Why do some people think it is okay to hurt our dogs 
Just because they remain faithful??
Lisa - really well you could write about this awful attempt, I could not
Just because they remain faithful??
Lisa - really well you could write about this awful attempt, I could not
Darren
Forums Enthusiast
Yes, Why do some people think it is okay to hurt our dogs
Just because they remain faithful??
Lisa - really well you could write about this awful attempt, I could not
Totally agree, just because you can do something doesn't mean you should!
My first home I had, I didn't have the money to put up a large fence to keep my Harley safe......Sooo I went to the local factories and took their damaged wooden pallets FREE of charge. I then bought a cheap used sander, got the pallets, cut, sanded, joined them then painted them. Over the space of a week I built my own fence at practically no expense (a cheap sander, nails, paint and some fuel for the car to collect pallets). Yes it took me a lot of personel time but theres always a way to avoid inflicting any kind of discomfort on your pet.