Not teaching "sit"?

[Eleore]

A quick question for you guys...

Now that Lucien has settled down nicely at home, I want to start preparing him for the ring. I will be focusing on the wait command, and position on the table (I read another thread on this I think, Lucien is impossible to have still on a table...). The only think he does without complaining is letting me open his mouth, which I have been doing for a while.

My main doubt is that the breeder said I cannot teach him the command "sit", since he might sit on the ring. I find this a bit odd, so I was wondering if everyone he shows does this as well...?

(also, bonus points on extra suggestions on how to teach him wait or how to not kill himself from the table hahaha )

 

[tofu pup]

A quick question for you guys...
Now that Lucien has settled down nicely at home, I want to start preparing him for the ring. I will be focusing on the wait command, and position on the table (I read another thread on this I think, Lucien is impossible to have still on a table...). The only think he does without complaining is letting me open his mouth, which I have been doing for a while.

Oh, I am so glad that he is settling in well. Letting you open/handle his mouth is great, too.

My main doubt is that the breeder said I cannot teach him the command "sit", since he might sit on the ring. I find this a bit odd, so I was wondering if everyone he shows does this as well...?

I see no problem in teaching show dogs to "sit". Shelties are very smart, and part of training him to "sit" and to "show" will be teaching him that when he's in the ring, he's expected not to sit. I know there are many dogs who have been successful in Obedience, Agility and the show-ring - and certainly all of my family's dogs know to "sit" for a cookie at home, but "show" for a treat in the ring.

(also, bonus points on extra suggestions on how to teach him wait or how to not kill himself from the table hahaha )

Go slowly on the wait command... at first, praise him even if he's just holding still for a very short time. Help him by keeping your body and your hands very still and calm - that will help him to understand to keep himself still, too.

Don't let go of him on the table! I'm not sure how you are positioning him, but when I show dogs, I always have a hand under the collar (not holding the loose end, but actually up and under the collar itself) when they're on the table. This helps me to keep control of the dog, helps me to anticipate a "flyoff", and keeps the dog from dropping his head.

When I pick the dog up, I have my right hand under the chin or collar and my left holding the dog's body. I place him on the table, and keep my right hand holding onto the collar while my left hand "fixes" the rear legs.

Then I switch to having my left hand under the collar, move to the front, and fix the two front legs.

Now it's time for the judge to turn around and see my dog, and I use my right hand to catch the dog's attention to complete the picture, while still holding the collar in my left hand.

Tips for helping him stay still...
- When you first put him on the table, gently rock him side-to-side a little from the collar. I think this "settles" the dog into himself and tells him to hold still.
- As I said, keep hold of the collar - when you control the head, you control the whole dog. Even if he does decide to jump, you have a secure hold and are close enough to catch him.
- Be patient... Lucien's still a little guy, and just like a little kid, it's hard to sit still for long at that age! Keep training sessions short and happy, and don't set the bar too high too early.

 

[Justicemom]

Oh, I am so glad that he is settling in well. Letting you open/handle his mouth is great, too.



I see no problem in teaching show dogs to "sit". Shelties are very smart, and part of training him to "sit" and to "show" will be teaching him that when he's in the ring, he's expected not to sit. I know there are many dogs who have been successful in Obedience, Agility and the show-ring - and certainly all of my family's dogs know to "sit" for a cookie at home, but "show" for a treat in the ring.



Go slowly on the wait command... at first, praise him even if he's just holding still for a very short time. Help him by keeping your body and your hands very still and calm - that will help him to understand to keep himself still, too.

Don't let go of him on the table! I'm not sure how you are positioning him, but when I show dogs, I always have a hand under the collar (not holding the loose end, but actually up and under the collar itself) when they're on the table. This helps me to keep control of the dog, helps me to anticipate a "flyoff", and keeps the dog from dropping his head.

When I pick the dog up, I have my right hand under the chin or collar and my left holding the dog's body. I place him on the table, and keep my right hand holding onto the collar while my left hand "fixes" the rear legs.

Then I switch to having my left hand under the collar, move to the front, and fix the two front legs.

Now it's time for the judge to turn around and see my dog, and I use my right hand to catch the dog's attention to complete the picture, while still holding the collar in my left hand.

Tips for helping him stay still...
- When you first put him on the table, gently rock him side-to-side a little from the collar. I think this "settles" the dog into himself and tells him to hold still.
- As I said, keep hold of the collar - when you control the head, you control the whole dog. Even if he does decide to jump, you have a secure hold and are close enough to catch him.
- Be patient... Lucien's still a little guy, and just like a little kid, it's hard to sit still for long at that age! Keep training sessions short and happy, and don't set the bar too high too early.

I do just like tofupup. Never had a problem with them sitting in the ring. I was told by a friend my mine not to teach them sit when I first started showing Justice. We had a bet going on who's dog would sit in the breed ring first, hers or Justice. I won that bet a long time ago and in fact Justice never sat in the breed ring once. I taught him to stack and stay and he never moved. Justice went high in trial and high aggregate score for the weekend(4 trials) in obedience in Canada, the same day he got Best of Opposite over 5 male specials. I never even moved the collar.

Porter right now is in Novice class and learning to stack on the table and gaiting for breed. He is still a bit wiggly but getting it. They are smart enough to know the difference.

 

[ClantyreSheltie]

All of my dogs know "stand" and have learned it from a sit as well, just in case.

We actually do still have some breeders who don't let co-owners teach obedience or agility until the dogs finish. Sad, but true.

 

[Tami]

I will admit I was a bit worried about this when I started showing Tucker myself. I had taught him sit, sit up, down, etc with voice and hand commands and never worried about it since I wasn't the one showing him in breed. His breeder never asked him for those so there was no 'mixing' of breed and the other commands.

When I first started practicing to show him myself he sat once but I expect it's more because I was worried about it than anything else. Once I corrected him and told to to stand and stay we never had any problems and he's never sat for me or anyone else in the breed ring.

 

[romeosangiovese]

When I went to pick Juliet up from her breeder, I was happily teaching all the little puppies to sit! Automatically! For food! Completely forgetting that show dogs need to stand! Spent the next day trying to teach them all to stand again.

 

[Eleore]

Well people... it seems our first show will be in only 3 weeks... and with 3 days of showing!

Thank you for all your comments! It seems it's up to each breeder then, but I'm leaning towards teaching sit, at least after this show.

So far we have made almost 0 zero progress, with a huge leap yesterday. During a week, Lucien would not move when the "expo" leash was on, so I started putting his collar on every time I took him out of the xpen. This basically made the collar the most exciting thing ever xD.

Right now he has his moments... sometimes he will run next to me like a pro while other he would dash or, worse, refuse to move at all and lay down. But considering we went from zero movement to this, it's a great improvement!

The table was mostly a zero as well (he would move, sniff everything and ignore food) until I started using the top of his kennel as a table. It seems this surface is just the right size. Still, tofu pup, you definitely took the bonus points:

When you first put him on the table, gently rock him side-to-side a little from the collar. I think this "settles" the dog into himself and tells him to hold still.

This worked so well I still have trouble believing it! He keeps still a lot now, and I use a toy to get his attention (food does not work, but he still gets a treat after a few second of holding). His legs are probably a mess but I'm trying to focus on one thing at the time.


I'm extremely nervous and conscious that we will probably not make it on time. The people from the Sheltie club have told me not to worry so much, since his category (Special Puppies, 3 to 6 months) is really forgiving, so it will be a good place to begin with no experience. A woman even told me that her little guy actually barked, laid down and all, and still won (I later found out this puppy has the same parents as mine! haha).

 

[tofu pup]

Still, tofu pup, you definitely took the bonus points:

This worked so well I still have trouble believing it! He keeps still a lot now, and I use a toy to get his attention (food does not work, but he still gets a treat after a few second of holding). His legs are probably a mess but I'm trying to focus on one thing at the time.

I'm so happy for you! I can't take any credit; someone else gave me that tip years and years ago. I'm really glad it's working for you!

I'm extremely nervous and conscious that we will probably not make it on time. The people from the Sheltie club have told me not to worry so much, since his category (Special Puppies, 3 to 6 months) is really forgiving, so it will be a good place to begin with no experience. A woman even told me that her little guy actually barked, laid down and all, and still won (I later found out this puppy has the same parents as mine! haha).

I think this sounds spot-on for that age group... puppies are going to act like puppies, and I don't think any judge would expect them to act like adults. He might be a little naughty, but he's there to have fun and learn that dog shows are great!

Relax and enjoy it. You're going to have a great time with your pup!

 

[Ann]

Wonderful! The best way to learn is to just do it. We can't wait to hear about your first show. TofuPup is right...puppies will be puppies and no one expects any different. In fact, they seem to enjoy it. I'll bet you and Lucien will be a smashing success.

Keep practicing!

 

[HopeShelties]

Go ahead and teach sit (as well as a stand stay). A breeder who insists they not learn sit for fear of them sitting in the ring is seriously underestimating the intelligence and ability to learn of the breed. A dog is more than capable of learning more than one command and offering the correct behavior when asked for it. All one needs to do is go watch the rally ring to see dogs that clearly understand sit, down, and stand and do it all in the same class.