"Poshies" Seriously?!

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celloyogi

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I know there were threads a while back about the so-called "toy" and "mini" shelties. That's ridiculous enough. Now I was looking at sheltie breeder sites and came across one that is breeding what they call "poshies" - a sheltie x pomeranian. (not posting the site but I'm sure you could google it if you want)

Shaking my head here. People paying high purebred-dog prices for what it basically a mixed breed/mutt. Calling it a designer breed? I guess if an accident happens, it has to be covered up somehow...:rolleyes2:
 
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And this drives me even crazier:

The characteristics are those of the two breeds but tempered by one another. These are athletic, friendly dogs who never meet a stranger. They are outgoing and playful. The shyness of the sheltie is made brave by the pom, the pushiness and yappiness of the pom is tempered by the sheltie. It creates this beautiful friendly companion! They do not have the herding obsession many shelties do, but are super smart and want to learn everything you can teach them. The 'hybrid vigor' that crossing two completely unrelated breeds decreases the possibility of recessive health problems that now occur in both breeds from 'line-breeding' (in-breeding).

Clearly this person knows nothing about breeding/genetics, yet has solved the major issues of both breeds by crossbreeding. Unbelievable.
 
3Stars said:
And this drives me even crazier:

The characteristics are those of the two breeds but tempered by one another. These are athletic, friendly dogs who never meet a stranger. They are outgoing and playful. The shyness of the sheltie is made brave by the pom, the pushiness and yappiness of the pom is tempered by the sheltie. It creates this beautiful friendly companion! They do not have the herding obsession many shelties do, but are super smart and want to learn everything you can teach them. The 'hybrid vigor' that crossing two completely unrelated breeds decreases the possibility of recessive health problems that now occur in both breeds from 'line-breeding' (in-breeding).

Clearly this person knows nothing about breeding/genetics, yet has solved the major issues of both breeds by crossbreeding. Unbelievable.
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Hehehe. I wondered if anyone would notice that.

I'll give them that the resulting mutt is cute. So are labradoodles, bugs, and whatever else people are foisting on the uninformed public.

People seem to want a "purebred" dog but have so little knowledge of basic biology that they will pay for a designer dog marketed with all these completely unfounded statements; those same people could just go adopt a mutt from the pound (and all dogs would be better off).
 
OMG as if Shelties aren't crazy and barky enough without breeding in Poms!

Plus there is the whole issue of breeding working breeds with toy breeds. Over here it's known to cause problems (not that it stops the 'breeders), particular heart problems. Because a toy breed just does not have the physical and heart strength to support a high energy breed. The "Jugs" are a case in point - lots of people thought it was a great idea because it unsquashed the pug nose. But what happened was a lot of Jack Russell personalities got a Pug heart and didn't last the distance.

I hope it was just a mistake and not a new design.
 
3Stars said:
The 'hybrid vigor' that crossing two completely unrelated breeds decreases the possibility of recessive health problems that now occur in both breeds from 'line-breeding' (in-breeding).

Clearly this person knows nothing about breeding/genetics, yet has solved the major issues of both breeds by crossbreeding. Unbelievable.
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I would agree that this person knows little about genetics, but not based on the statement above. Hybrid vigor is a real thing, and in-breeding does cause recessive health problems. This is the reason the Dalmatians bred out to a Pointer, and the Basenji's went back to native stock. What this breeder is espousing is nothing but marketing to people that don't know better.

HOWEVER, all dogs will still have issues that all dogs have. This kind of breeding just reduces the chances of those breed-specific fun recessives that we try to breed around.

Think about things like DM (dermotomyocitis), which seems to be a Sheltie/Collie/herding breed thing. Probably, these Sheltie/Pom mixes won't have an issue with it. Same with Collie eye in Collie mixes, it's not nearly as common.

Where mixed breed breeders fail is when they breed two breeds with similar recessive traits, ala, lab/poodle mixes. Both have bad hips, both bloat. So you aren't going to get away from that by mixing these two breeds.
 
*Caro said:
Because a toy breed just does not have the physical and heart strength to support a high energy breed.
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I wondered about that in the Pug/Beagle mix down the street from me. I feel like mixing a squish faced, useless, ugly dog with a hunting dog would make something that would just one day pop. However, the owner runs with him several times a day, and he seems to be fine. He's definitely better off as a mix than as an actual Pug (on my list of breeds that don't need to exist).
 
not only is it not healthy.. but holy moly they charge a lot for these puppies... my shelties, purebred, did not cost that much. Granted, the one was a farm place and other is a breeder I know first hand from showing, but WOW price tag!
 
We have one! He came from a shelter. He was running loose on the streets when the shelter people got him. But he was trained and was obviously someone's pet at one time.

He's extremely smart. He understands almost all of what you tell him.

He is our only snuggle bunny. He wants to be in Daddy's lap all the time. And if Daddy isn't home, he'll settle for his Mama.

His only health issues (at 8 years old) are bad gums and seizures that he developed when we moved into this house last June. We decided it was the water. We started giving all the boys bottled water. Rascal has gone from nasty, awful seizures once a week to 6 weeks in between the last 2 and the last one was very mild and lasted less than a minute.

We do have to watch him closely to make sure he doesn't escape. At the other house, he pushed by me and got out 3 times. Scared the beejeebers out of me! He always came back but that magic recall? Nonexistent if he's loose!!!!
 
ClantyreSheltie said:
I would agree that this person knows little about genetics, but not based on the statement above. Hybrid vigor is a real thing, and in-breeding does cause recessive health problems. This is the reason the Dalmatians bred out to a Pointer, and the Basenji's went back to native stock. What this breeder is espousing is nothing but marketing to people that don't know better.

HOWEVER, all dogs will still have issues that all dogs have. This kind of breeding just reduces the chances of those breed-specific fun recessives that we try to breed around.

Think about things like DM (dermotomyocitis), which seems to be a Sheltie/Collie/herding breed thing. Probably, these Sheltie/Pom mixes won't have an issue with it. Same with Collie eye in Collie mixes, it's not nearly as common.

Where mixed breed breeders fail is when they breed two breeds with similar recessive traits, ala, lab/poodle mixes. Both have bad hips, both bloat. So you aren't going to get away from that by mixing these two breeds.
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In the case of one breeder I noted, they are breeding "toy" shelties - an unrecognized breed potentially with health problems of its own. Creating a new breed from two presents its own problems. Genetic diversity may be greater initially, but to continue the breed, is not line-breeding pretty much the only way to go? Most of the designer breeders I've read about have initially been created to reduce health problems, but breeds are chosen based on temperament and/or appearance (or accidentally), not on genetic medical info. So the 'quality control' is almost non-existent.

My primary issue with designer breeds is that the people who buy them (at least those that I know personally or casually) think they are getting a fancy purebred dog that will be super-healthy and long-lived, and then sneer at those of us who actually have purebred dogs. I can go to any animal shelter, pick any dog, and call it a designer breed by combining the names of the breeds it resembles. The difference is I won't be paying purebred (or higher) prices.
 
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