Prong Collar
- Thread starter vicky2
- Start date
mcguiregirl2248
Forums Enthusiast
Oh, we had a very vocal discussion about this very subject before. Most of us here think it is over kill for any sheltie. I personally could not think of one reason to use one on a sheltie ever!
Ditto. Actually, on any dog for that matter. People don't realize how sharp they are. They don't feel to bad on your hands or arms, but on your sensitive neck, it can cause serious damage. If someone does use them though, I would want to hear their opinion on it and why they use them.
Toffee's Mom
Forums Sage
Prong Collars Overkill!!!! particularly on Shelties...
Also find it terrible as they just don't release properly on a long haird, thick coated dog with all that fur interfering...
Many of us are about POSITIVE enforcement now... less or no physical manipulation and reward behaviours.. Clicker training, rewarding GOOD behaviour.. etc also is more fun for the handler!!!
Going back to prong collars and stuff is going back to old style, outdated since about 15 years ago... Having said that I USED more punitive measures before, such as check collars and I have trained GSD's in some protection and tracking work, so I understand the logic behind it, but as with most reformed people, lol you will find me completely against those things now and what we used to call check-chains...
As a matter of fact I do not believe in martingale collars anymore, either
But that's just a matter of opinion
Also find it terrible as they just don't release properly on a long haird, thick coated dog with all that fur interfering...
Many of us are about POSITIVE enforcement now... less or no physical manipulation and reward behaviours.. Clicker training, rewarding GOOD behaviour.. etc also is more fun for the handler!!!
Going back to prong collars and stuff is going back to old style, outdated since about 15 years ago... Having said that I USED more punitive measures before, such as check collars and I have trained GSD's in some protection and tracking work, so I understand the logic behind it, but as with most reformed people, lol you will find me completely against those things now and what we used to call check-chains...
As a matter of fact I do not believe in martingale collars anymore, either
But that's just a matter of opinion
Caro
Moderator
This question about prong collars has been discussed before - http://www.sheltieforums.com/showthread.php?t=3048&highlight=prong&page=4
I had a behaviourist try to use a prong collar on my car herding male. Never again - even he had to admit it didnt work properly on a sheltie (he used them to train police dogs).
Shelties have a very thick mane - to use a prong collar properly you should shave the mane off. With prong collars they are mean to give a short, sharp dig, but on a sheltie when you pull it gets caught in the mane. Both I and the behaviourist had to loosen the prong by hand when it was tried on Deska and that defeats the purpose. Prongs are designed for shorter haired breeds.
Of course the other thing is shelties tend to 'shut down' with harsh training methods and you can actually make a problem worse by using these techniques on a sheltie or other reserved/timid breeds.
I had a behaviourist try to use a prong collar on my car herding male. Never again - even he had to admit it didnt work properly on a sheltie (he used them to train police dogs).
Shelties have a very thick mane - to use a prong collar properly you should shave the mane off. With prong collars they are mean to give a short, sharp dig, but on a sheltie when you pull it gets caught in the mane. Both I and the behaviourist had to loosen the prong by hand when it was tried on Deska and that defeats the purpose. Prongs are designed for shorter haired breeds.
Of course the other thing is shelties tend to 'shut down' with harsh training methods and you can actually make a problem worse by using these techniques on a sheltie or other reserved/timid breeds.
Justicemom
Forums Celebrity
Let me start this discussion by saying that my prefered collar for training is a buckle collar and that 95% of the time I train off leash. I use a balance approach of praise,play and food for correct behaviors and correction(90% verbal(uh uh) and 10% physical(mostly guidance by collar) for incorrect ones. Correction is never giving in the learning phase. My Shelties were all trained on buckle collars.
That being said I have/do use prong collars on as as need basis. Usually it is on big dogs such as labs and northern breeds. Rarely have I ever needed to use it on a sheltie. Usually it when an owner is having difficulty with control either because of the personality of the dog or the physical limitations of the owner. Would I routinely and automaticly jump to using one. No.
Prong collar are tools and any tools can be misused. Prongs are not designed for big force full corrections but finger tip ones. Unfortunately people misuse them and that is what causes the problems. They are not fitted right or they are the wrong size link. If someone were to poke a hole in a dogs skin using a prong, that prong is being used INCORRECTLY.
I personally hate chain collars. Most people do not have the timing required to use one, they cause alot of force on the neck and a lot of dogs end up learning to lean on them which causes them to choke. I would not ever use one in obedience training. The way they are used for showing in breed is not the same. I have also seen bad neck injuries with gentle leader or halti when people have used to much force and cranked the neck backs. But the head collar is still in my training toolbox if needed.
In an ideal world, all dogs would be as responsive as our shelties and all owners would have the patience to work with their dogs as much as the wonderful people on this list. But unfortunately that is not always the case.
That being said I have/do use prong collars on as as need basis. Usually it is on big dogs such as labs and northern breeds. Rarely have I ever needed to use it on a sheltie. Usually it when an owner is having difficulty with control either because of the personality of the dog or the physical limitations of the owner. Would I routinely and automaticly jump to using one. No.
Prong collar are tools and any tools can be misused. Prongs are not designed for big force full corrections but finger tip ones. Unfortunately people misuse them and that is what causes the problems. They are not fitted right or they are the wrong size link. If someone were to poke a hole in a dogs skin using a prong, that prong is being used INCORRECTLY.
I personally hate chain collars. Most people do not have the timing required to use one, they cause alot of force on the neck and a lot of dogs end up learning to lean on them which causes them to choke. I would not ever use one in obedience training. The way they are used for showing in breed is not the same. I have also seen bad neck injuries with gentle leader or halti when people have used to much force and cranked the neck backs. But the head collar is still in my training toolbox if needed.
In an ideal world, all dogs would be as responsive as our shelties and all owners would have the patience to work with their dogs as much as the wonderful people on this list. But unfortunately that is not always the case.
graydawntreader
Forums Enthusiast
On some breeds and in some situations, it's fine. On your average Sheltie, no. Just no.
romeosangiovese
Forums Enthusiast
Shelties are too sensitive and too intelligent to require prong collars. Even if the sheltie isn't like a typical sheltie, or if the dog is of a more independent breed, I would still suggest trying out positive training first and exhaust your options in that area before trying something "harder".
clancyh8sabby
Forums Enthusiast
I got my armor on...LOL
You guys have never met my hard headed loveable Clancy. I did use a prong with him for a very short period of time..Like was mentioned you have to know how to use it. An instructor taught me how to use it. I never pulled, yanked on it..all I did was stop walking. Now Shelties are very smart and Clancy even with his hard head is no exception...He quickly learned when he had the prong on..no pulling...no prong on..pull all he wants...so really wasn't working.
I personally don't see them as being abusive as long as they are used correctly...but you have to know, its not a miracle worker and you still have to do alot of training. So not sure if its really worth the bother.
I have since learned all the other positive ways of training and agree...thats the way to go..
I was told that if a dog has figured something out for themselves....(in training) like clicker training..capturing behaviours...they learn it better and faster and are more likely to readily obey the command for that behaviour. So makes sense that you would want your dog to happily do whats asked.
I'm happy to report that Clancy is a happy well adjusted (well he has some quirks) doggy who loves his mommy and has totally forgiven me for using a prong..LOL He knows over 200 behaviours and does them very happily and even more so if cookies are in sight..hey, he is a Sheltie! LOL
woofs
Julie
Clancy & Abby
You guys have never met my hard headed loveable Clancy. I did use a prong with him for a very short period of time..Like was mentioned you have to know how to use it. An instructor taught me how to use it. I never pulled, yanked on it..all I did was stop walking. Now Shelties are very smart and Clancy even with his hard head is no exception...He quickly learned when he had the prong on..no pulling...no prong on..pull all he wants...so really wasn't working.
I personally don't see them as being abusive as long as they are used correctly...but you have to know, its not a miracle worker and you still have to do alot of training. So not sure if its really worth the bother.
I have since learned all the other positive ways of training and agree...thats the way to go..
I was told that if a dog has figured something out for themselves....(in training) like clicker training..capturing behaviours...they learn it better and faster and are more likely to readily obey the command for that behaviour. So makes sense that you would want your dog to happily do whats asked.
I'm happy to report that Clancy is a happy well adjusted (well he has some quirks) doggy who loves his mommy and has totally forgiven me for using a prong..LOL He knows over 200 behaviours and does them very happily and even more so if cookies are in sight..hey, he is a Sheltie! LOL
woofs
Julie
Clancy & Abby