Skin issues and perineum licking - help!

I have been fighting skin issues with my sheltie, Jack. The vet did bloodwork & also checked his thyroid. Thyroid was ok, no fleas so he thinks it's possibly a food allergy. Even though the food hasn't changed he said they can suddenly get reactions to it. Jack is 8 now & has a silky type hair. He got so bad he started losing his hair & had reddish irritated spots. We put him on antibiotics in case of infection from the scratching & the vet gave us an antifungal/antibiotic type shampoo to bath him twice a week. He also put him on Science Diet food for allergies. We gave him no treats other than pieces of the allergy dog food. He has cleared up a lot but it's still not 100%. We tried going back to his regular food (4Health duck & potato grain free) & are keeping an eye on it. Still no treats except the dogfood. Also we're trying coconut oil in his food. We were told to use it on the skin too but haven't tried it yet.

Hope you get some answers. It's frustrating when you can't help them. Here is a link to Hill's that lists some symptoms of allergies- www.hillspet.com/dog-care/dog-disease-allergic-dermatitis.html
 
back again

Hello again guys,

My sheltie's licking had actually come to a halt end January this year - I was trying out so many different measures that I couldn't quite pinpoint what the exact remedy/problem was. Anyway, we enjoyed a good half a year's worth of relief when I fed him raw chicken, minced beef, pig liver, with salmon bones. I started to steam his food before feeding after the minced beef started getting very fatty, and Chiral started having looser stools.

After his dental cleaning in June I realized that his teeth were still building up plaque very quickly, despite my brushing them daily. I thought it might be because of his cooked/wet diet, and, together with the fact that preparing his meals took considerable time every month (I'd prepare 30days worth each time), I decided to transition him back to raw. The first day I gave him a raw skinless but bone-in chicken thigh, he started butt-licking. It was only after about a month that I correlated it, and possibly the earlier episode in November, to a food allergy to chicken bones. This conclusion was made only after I had attempted to permutate the protein and bone combination. I managed to confirm that only on beef and salmon bones did he not lick his perineal area.

Just as I thought all was solved (and I'd gotten a month's supply of both), shortly after he started bum-licking again. For the past month I've tried changing the protein (white fish fillets, egg white/whole eggs), bone/calcium source (ground eggshells), adding some carbs (pumpkin/potato) - each time, he'd stop licking immediately and completely for maybe two days, before the licking resumes. In case I sound intolerant, this perineum licking is accompanied by some rashes on groin, occasional ear scratching and muzzle pawing, and a reddish area on his snout just after his nose that correlates with the licking intensity. My most recent combination consists of a whole egg + another half eggwhite, with potato (which he previously did very well on) and well-chopped celery. That gave him the runs (with mucus), and now even on a very simple low-fat, single-protein diet of cooked eggwhites 'broth', he is still bum-licking. I will say, though, that the rashes and ear scratching intensity have lessened when on eggs, the most recent 'novel' protein.

I am at wits' end as I have tried every protein possible (it is extremely uncommon to get rabbit/bison/elk here, and lamb is crazily expensive. Pork bones also make Chiral butt-lick), and while it would stop his licking completely for two days, it would resume despite the same diet. Antihistamines did help, but I really do not wish to rely on dosing my dog every day.

Really sorry for the long post, but I would appreciate any advice!

Best,
JT
 
It sounds like the raw may be a problem if you the signs reappeared when you switched back to raw. A lot of dogs just don't cope well on raw. Try putting him on a very basic diet - eg rice and pumpkin - for a few days, and if that doesn't work, then you may be dealing with contact allergies or hay fever.

If you are worried about plaque build up on cooked food, it is actually the chewing of large chunks of meat, rather than the bone or the fact it is raw. So you can purchase steaks, or feed larger pieces of meat rather than mince. My dog's get lamb forequarter chops - seared, and shanks - slightly par boiled (to reduce pathogens) and that's enough to keep their breath fresh and teeth looking good.

Btw - when was he last flea-ed? Fleas often gravitate to the areas you describe because they are warm and moist.
 
I am dealing with the same problem with my Ally. Every August - December she gets the itchies and it is not food related. My vet says food allergies aren't as common as we think. Ally is allergic to some environmental thing, probably pollen. We have tried different antihistimines and then doxepin recently, and honestly nothing works except Temaril-P which is a lowdose steriod and antihistimine combo.

We've done the fancy shampoos, flea control is not the issue, and she's on a restricted diet anyway due to her pancreatitis. Unfortunately, you really need to do whatever it takes to break the lick/chew/itch cycle because a skin infection will eventually happen and then you've got more problems. A short course of steriod should hopefully give your Sheltie some relief and heal up his sore areas.

Believe me I don't like using a lot of meds on my dogs but you can twist yourself into a pretzel trying all kinds of folk remedies that mostly don't work.
I would talk to your vet about trying that route and then go from there. It may be you will have to use at least the antihistimines to give him continued relief. I think Ally is very miserable when she is that itchy.

For what it's worth, no-one I know uses Frontline anymore, it just doesn't work.... :no:
 
Thanks guys for your replies!

Caro: I think it was more the chicken bone though - for some time after his licking stopped in January I was still feeding him raw chicken and minced pork/beef but with salmon bones instead, and he was fine. It was only after I realized the amount of fat in the minced pork/beef supplied had increased (and the respective brands introduced 'leaner versions' at twice the cost) that I decided to cook his meats and remove the amount of fat I fed. But yeah, I've definitely considered if he just doesn't cope so well on raw. I couldn't quite believe or accept that for some time though, given that I'd switched him to raw believing it was better for him.

I've indeed tried to keep Chiral's recent meals as simple as possible: eggs and pumpkin, eggs and potato, most recently just egg whites in water (all cooked). As of yesterday, he was still licking his bum. I must say, though, that each time I changed an ingredient he'd actually stop licking for at least half a day (after that meal, till the next feeding) - only to start again. Out of desperation I fed him his original herring kibble last night, waking to no bum-licking. I'm just waiting to see when that would reappear though.

I'd actually tried to buy beef rump steaks, but Chiral's a gulper, and so I had to hold on to one edge of the steak to force him to chew. He tends to use his incisors, and I noticed after a few days of such feeding there seems to be a hairline crack/tear on them. It didn't seem to bother him, but it freaked me out enough to stop doing so. I realized that when he crushes pork soup bones it does do a good job cleaning his back teeth, but I think pork also gives him itchy-bum.

I'd last given him Frontline Plus in July - but I've also heard a lot of reviews about Frontline not quite working for a lot of people too. Sharon brought that up too. Hmm. I'd bought the 6 pack! :uhoh:

Sharon: I'm hoping it's not the food too, but for it to coincide with my reintroduction of raw chicken bones seems to be more than a coincidence. He's generally still got a good appetite, eager to go on walks, responsive (though I have definitely noticed that he seems to put his head on the floor a lot quicker after lying down, compared to previously), scratches occasionally or especially after I give him a full body rub - so it isn't as though he's scratching incessantly, but it is still a problem, and I do not want it to escalate to any GI issues or anything.

50/50 white vinegar to water seems to provide some itch relief, and I'm hoping the vinegar also acts as an antiseptic somewhat due to its acidity. Otherwise I do have some steroid cream that the vet had previously prescribed for his pressure sores.


I'll update again how he's doing on back on kibble. Not my first choice (although my folks have been resistant to the whole raw thing and believe in kibble), but if that agrees with him most I'll just have to accept it. I'm expecting the butt-licking to return though...
 
Hey guys,

Since being back on his dry kibble on Sept 1 he hasn't been bum-licking, until this morning. This was, however, long after he was fed and had pooped last evening, and he wasn't licking at all then, either.

This may be unrelated, but Chiral usually poops once a day. Despite having pooped a couple of hours after he was fed last evening, and not fed any further, I woke to a couple of pieces of poop this morning. Not quite sure how/why :confused2:

Oh, and to add on to some symptoms that have been troubling me: his coat isn't so great (never have been after the first groomer we went to suggested we shave him so his coat would grow out better - I still cringe each time I think about that), but he's been losing fur much more than previously. I hesitate to say he's shedding, because it isn't his inner coat that he's losing. He isn't balding either, but I definitely have gotten a lot more fur off him each time I give him a simple greeting body rub. Not quite sure if it's related to his bum-licking though.

Sorry that my posts are so long! Replies and suggestions are greatly welcomed and appreciated :)
 
On the coat issue...I went back through your earlier posts and saw that your vet had not done any bloodwork. If you still haven't had bloodwork done, I really would recommend it. Coat and skin issues can be related to low thyroid function which is fairly common in Shelties...and an easy and inexpensive fix with medication.

Trini
 
trini said:
On the coat issue...I went back through your earlier posts and saw that your vet had not done any bloodwork. If you still haven't had bloodwork done, I really would recommend it. Coat and skin issues can be related to low thyroid function which is fairly common in Shelties...and an easy and inexpensive fix with medication. Trini
Click to expand...

I second this!

My dogs both have thyroid issues and the very first place showed up was in the condition of the coat followed by skin issues. Correcting the thyroid, which is as simple as giving an inexpensive pill as prescribed by the vet, can fix a variety of issues, some you may not know you have until they are gone and your dog is acting differently.

This is something definitely worth the cost of a vet trip.
 
Thanks Trini and Silaria for your suggestion! We did a very basic blood test for him (blood glucose, and to check for liver and kidney function) back in June - all was fine, but yeah guess it wouldn't have indicated any thyroid issues. Would my changing his diet have caused thyroid issues though, or is it genetic?

I'm also still considering feeding him commercially prepared raw as again Chiral has started licking his bum again after 3 days on his original kibble. Any suggestions? He seems to also be drinking and peeing quite a bit more as well.

Thank you everyone for taking time to read and reply - Chiral's still himself and I don't want to be overly paranoid, but keeping him at his optimum health is so very important to me.
 
Low thyroid issues are genetic. Even a basic blood test should have flagged a potential thyroid issue...at least the basic blood work we have done at our vet's does.

Also, you mention that Chiral is drinking and peeing more since going back on kibble...that makes sense because kibble is dry unlike canned food which is a large percentage water or feeding raw.

It is not paranoid to be concerned when a little dog seems a bit "off" and you don't know why...I hope you can get some solid answers soon.

Trini
 
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