Stays and anxiety

[simba14]

Simba is 3 years old now and we have been training for competition obedience for just over 2 years. His heelwork is so so good and he is so enthusiastic in the ring but when it comes to stays its like this switch goes in his brain. I get anxious because I know he is anxious so it turns into a never ending cycle of anxiety between both myself and Simba.

We have been stuck competing at a beginners level and all because of broken stays.
I feel the way stays are thought at our class just doesn't work for us. I went through the basics at the beginning to teach him, take a step away and reward, take a step away pause go back and reward etc. We then hit this point however where once he knows we are going to do stays I can't get him to lie down anymore. Tonight for instance he broke a sit stay I put him back and took 2 steps back my trainer said to walk further back I said no he broke it again I got flustered and frustrated so just pulled him out altogether because I didn't want him feeding of my frustration.

I feel like I am at the point where I feel like my beautiful dog with the most amazing heel work and recall would be better of just quitting obedience completely because I just can't teach him that sitting or lying a few meters away from me for 1-2 minutes is nothing to worry about. I don't want him to feel stressed all for a rosette or a ribbon. Any advice or tips? Should I keep going or just quit altogether and concentrate on my younger dog who has good stays but isn't quiet as clean or enthusiastic in the other exercises?

(Simba absolutely loves his time in the ring other then stays and his barking and jumping around in between exercises never fails to bring a smile to my face)

 

[Calliesmom]

Sounds like you need to change his stay picture.
here AKC has a class called Beginner Novice- the Sit Stay in this class is the dog and handler move to the middle of the ring and the handler sits the dog. say stay, walk forward away from the dog and all the way around the ring until you reach the point where you are in front of the dog and then walk towards the dog and around to get back to heel position. You can start with smaller circles and work up to a larger circle. When he can do this, then go back to standing in front of him.
Start like you were going to circle but when you walk away, turn and face him and work back up to the minute or so that you need for the group stays.
you can do this with the down as well. AKC has added Preferred classes and the major difference in preferred novice is that the dog will do this stay in either a sit or a down so there aren't group stays in this set of classes. The appeal to me is that jump heights are also lower similar to the preferred classes in agility....

 

[ghggp]

I feel your pain! It is very hard to want to succeed so badly, yet the timing is just not right! Yes, I agree a ribbon is not worth either of you feeling anxious!
When I completed the novice obedience class and began to compete to get my CD title, my trainer told me to 'proof' Kelsey before I went into the show ring.
That meant going to different places to do the exercises. The more variations I could place her in to make sure she understood the better the end result. Places like parks, unattended school parking lots, or places where distractions are occurring!
While I don't expect you to put your pup at risk, I would have a thin lead attached just in case of a broken sit.

Good luck! Maybe you could also just wait and try again in six months! Maybe a break would help! Just a thought...

 

[2GoodDogs]

How do you leave your dog for a recall? He has to stay while you walk away... can he do that successfully?

I train stays with duration, before i add distance. I start close up, like you did, always rewarding and releasing before my dog had a chance to move. Some of my students start putting weight on one foot like they are about to move, then move foot and rock forward a little...

I worked at longer and longer (starting with a nano second, then click-treat) working up to a minute, before I started moving 3 feet away, 5 feet away, up to across the ring, and disappearing out of sight for nanoseconds...

Don't give up, it takes calm patience and persistence. Your stress level will definitely affect your sensitive sheltie!

The out of sight sit stay exercise actually cured the separation anxiety I had with my first dog. She learned she could stay and nothing bad would happen to her while I disappeared...

 

[simba14]

Sounds like you need to change his stay picture.
here AKC has a class called Beginner Novice- the Sit Stay in this class is the dog and handler move to the middle of the ring and the handler sits the dog. say stay, walk forward away from the dog and all the way around the ring until you reach the point where you are in front of the dog and then walk towards the dog and around to get back to heel position. You can start with smaller circles and work up to a larger circle. When he can do this, then go back to standing in front of him.
Start like you were going to circle but when you walk away, turn and face him and work back up to the minute or so that you need for the group stays.
you can do this with the down as well. AKC has added Preferred classes and the major difference in preferred novice is that the dog will do this stay in either a sit or a down so there aren't group stays in this set of classes. The appeal to me is that jump heights are also lower similar to the preferred classes in agility....

Oh I wish I lived in America! I can leave Simba and walk a large circle around him in a sit stay and he is completely fine. When I'm moving he is ok it's when I stop that he starts to worry. The down stay is so hit and miss either I can't get him to lie down at all even with a treat or he will lie down but sits up the minute I move. He never stands up just sits up and stays.

We have 6 classes her starting with pre-beginners and next is beginners which we are in. It's my younger dog Shoka that won us out of pre beginners. Stays aren't problem at all for Shoka but he is a bit of a nut and is either brilliant or leaves the ring during heel work to go and play ball with some dog in the distance hahah

 

[simba14]

I feel your pain! It is very hard to want to succeed so badly, yet the timing is just not right! Yes, I agree a ribbon is not worth either of you feeling anxious!
When I completed the novice obedience class and began to compete to get my CD title, my trainer told me to 'proof' Kelsey before I went into the show ring.
That meant going to different places to do the exercises. The more variations I could place her in to make sure she understood the better the end result. Places like parks, unattended school parking lots, or places where distractions are occurring!
While I don't expect you to put your pup at risk, I would have a thin lead attached just in case of a broken sit.

Good luck! Maybe you could also just wait and try again in six months! Maybe a break would help! Just a thought...

I only want him to be happy If he could be half as happy doing stays as he is doing everything else he would be flying.
I have proofed everything else in as many locations as possible but because I can't even get him to do stays in the house or at our weekly class I can't try doing them anywhere else.

We are just back from a 14 months break which did wonders for all of the other exercises but didn't help at all with stays. I took 8 months of classes and then 6 months at class without competing. We concentrated on agility for the 8 months which brought out this hyper, excited and enthusiastic side to Simba before the break he went into the ring but would have rathered be at home. The break was the best decision I could have made for him at the time.

 

[Piper's mom]

I feel your frustration, I've been doing obedience with Piper since he was 4 months old and now at almost 2 there have been many times I've considered quitting but I've hung in there because Piper loves doing obedience. I'd suggest you go back to the basics with his stays, for example if he will break his stay at 30 seconds go back to 15 seconds then to 30 etc until he holds it and continue until he holds them. Also you ahould keep his leash on him and keep your distance from him at just a few feet so you can catch him when he breaks and quickly correct him. When your able to increase the distance then I'd start proofing him, with Piper I'd put him in a stay, walk away then return to his side and then run away from him (he broke it the first time but never again lol) , or I'd drag a favourite toy behind me, or distraction from someone else etc. My big problem with Piper now is getting him to hold the dumbbell and boy oh boy do I ever understand how frustrating it can be, he hates that thing! But after getting him a properly fitting dumbbell yesterday I finally saw a glimmer of improvement so hang in there and don't give up!