To debark or not to debark

[Wagonracer]

As I have been contacting breeders in the hopes of adopting a Sheltie puppy the issue of barking has been discussed. Every breeder I have spoke to has told me that it is totally fine to debark a Sheltie. Two of the breeders told me that it is a very minor proceedure and that they had all their Shelties debarked (show dogs). I have always though of debarking as sounding like a cruel thing to do. I would like to know what everyone's thought is on this issue... Thanks...

 

[TaraLynn]

I am completely and TOTALLY against it!
Think about it...they bark mainly to ward of unknown things, when they get really excited, and to guard...wouldn't you WANT that in a dog? Sure Caliber barks when he's outside a little more then he probably should, but we're working on it, and he's doing well realizing when it's appropriate to bark and when not to bark. It doesn't help that we live in the mid-country and there are all sorts of things in the bushes and forest...but really, why would you want to debark your dog? It would be like losing your voice forever. One day you have it, the next, you don't. I mean, I'm sure some people are pro-debarking...and if it works for then, then great...I just REALLY don't see the point. I think it's just laziness on the owners part(for the most part) People just don't want to take the time or energy to train when it's appropriate to bark or not. I hope nobody takes great offense to that. If so, I'm sorry. I'm sure it does come in handy for showing in some ways?? ...but, yeah...I actually find the debarking bark A LOT more annoying then the full bark.

 

[romeosangiovese]

This is a highly controversial topic.

Personally, I'm completely against it. It is a convenient way out for those who find barking annoying. The root of the barking is not addressed. Dogs bark for good reasons, because they are bored, frustrated, fearful, etc. After debarking, they bark softer and you ignore it completely because it no longer bothers you, but the dogs are still bored, frustrated, fearful, etc. The dogs' general welfare are conveniently brushed under the carpet. Imagine yourself with laryngitis and having lost your voice, trying hard to communicate with someone else, but that person doesn't really hear you. It's horribly frustrating and depressing. Why would you want to put your dog through that? I would rather tackle the root of the problem and fix that instead. Where there's a will, there's a way. A humane and non-physical way to help barking dogs bark less. Because it's there, and easily accessible, we turn to it quickly to solve problems. We don't explore other options, we're not patient to try new solutions, to wait for these solutions to take effect. We want fast, easy, quick. We're dealing with a complex breathing, living, live animal, one with feelings, emotions, and complex behaviours which deserve to be treated respectfully and as what they are. We would never dream of sending our babies to get their voiceboxes surgically manipulated just because they cry and wail and deprive us of sleep, cause us stress and generally make us slightly mad, so I don't see why we would do that to dogs. They are not beneath us. They don't rank lower than humans.

It's very sad when I read reports of shelties and collies being the breeds most debarked. They were originally bred BY MAN to bark, the same darn specie that now puts them through painful procedures to stop the barking. I think it's crazy. We should take some responsibility in what the different breeds have become and not come up with convenient procedures to make what we prized them for before, go away.

So, yes, I'm against it. Wholeheartedly. I would go so far to say that I would move heaven and earth to resolve a barking problem for any dog I might own rather than debark him. Heck, might as well put it on record that if I ever debark a dog, I'd do the same procedure on myself.

On a related note, I see you are thinking of getting a sheltie. If barking bothers you, you might want to reconsider the breed.

 

[Crystal1]

Yes, I've lived in the country with dogs before, and it is no problem. When I married, I moved into town (actually a small village of about 2,000 people), and I have neighbors to worry about when my dogs bark. It is hard work to teach shelties not to bark, and some people have to work during the day, and don't have that much time. When we got our puppy, the breeders said that they had a homeowner's association, and they had to have their dogs debarked or sell their house and buy another. Not an easy thing in this tough economy. Talked to them today and they are having to get their dogs fixed because of a neighbor who recently moved in and calls the homeowner's association about every single dog who lives near her. They actually have a very nice home with a large lot, but I can only imagine what it could be like if you lived in an apartment or condo. Yes, you can train them to be quiet, if you have the time to put into it and are motivated, but I would get my dog debarked, if that was the only way I could keep him.

 

[TaraLynn]

This is a highly controversial topic.

Personally, I'm completely against it. It is a convenient way out for those who find barking annoying. The root of the barking is not addressed. Dogs bark for good reasons, because they are bored, frustrated, fearful, etc. After debarking, they bark softer and you ignore it completely because it no longer bothers you, but the dogs are still bored, frustrated, fearful, etc. The dogs' general welfare are conveniently brushed under the carpet. Imagine yourself with laryngitis and having lost your voice, trying hard to communicate with someone else, but that person doesn't really hear you. It's horribly frustrating and depressing. Why would you want to put your dog through that? I would rather tackle the root of the problem and fix that instead. Where there's a will, there's a way. A humane and non-physical way to help barking dogs bark less. Because it's there, and easily accessible, we turn to it quickly to solve problems. We don't explore other options, we're not patient to try new solutions, to wait for these solutions to take effect. We want fast, easy, quick. We're dealing with a complex breathing, living, live animal, one with feelings, emotions, and complex behaviours which deserve to be treated respectfully and as what they are. We would never dream of sending our babies to get their voiceboxes surgically manipulated just because they cry and wail and deprive us of sleep, cause us stress and generally make us slightly mad, so I don't see why we would do that to dogs. They are not beneath us. They don't rank lower than humans.

It's very sad when I read reports of shelties and collies being the breeds most debarked. They were originally bred BY MAN to bark, the same darn specie that now puts them through painful procedures to stop the barking. I think it's crazy. We should take some responsibility in what the different breeds have become and not come up with convenient procedures to make what we prized them for before, go away.

So, yes, I'm against it. Wholeheartedly. I would go so far to say that I would move heaven and earth to resolve a barking problem for any dog I might own rather than debark him. Heck, might as well put it on record that if I ever debark a dog, I'd do the same procedure on myself.

On a related note, I see you are thinking of getting a sheltie. If barking bothers you, you might want to reconsider the breed.

You really couldn't have said that ANY better!

 

[Caro]

I am a supporter of debarking being made available. I had a sheltie that was killed by baiting by a neighbour. My dog wasn't the barker - he was visiting his breeder (a neighbour of mine). She had 5 shelties so there was a lot of noise, but we lived in a State that did not allow debarking. The person living next door to the breeder got sick of the barking so decided to poison the dogs - problem was it was my dog that ate the poison. The breeder would have had her dogs debarked if it was legal. In the end my poor little fellow (Kimba) died a horrible death.

The breeder where I got Tully also has some of her dogs debarked - if she didn't she would never be allowed to have the dogs, or breed them, and she breeds lovely shelties (has done for years - before her neighbourhood built up). It doesn't remove the ability to bark - just the sound. Debarking is only ever used as a last resort anyway when all else fails - I dont know anyone who has done it as an easy way out.

I wouldnt worry too much - mostly its with multiple shelties you have to worry about over-barking. Multiple dogs egg each other on. I never had a problem with barking until I got multiple shelties, my shelties in the past have always been quiet - or at least easier to train to be quiet.

 

[Crestlynn]

This is a highly controversial topic.

Personally, I'm completely against it. It is a convenient way out for those who find barking annoying. The root of the barking is not addressed. Dogs bark for good reasons, because they are bored, frustrated, fearful, etc. After debarking, they bark softer and you ignore it completely because it no longer bothers you, but the dogs are still bored, frustrated, fearful, etc. The dogs' general welfare are conveniently brushed under the carpet. Imagine yourself with laryngitis and having lost your voice, trying hard to communicate with someone else, but that person doesn't really hear you. It's horribly frustrating and depressing. Why would you want to put your dog through that? I would rather tackle the root of the problem and fix that instead. Where there's a will, there's a way. A humane and non-physical way to help barking dogs bark less. Because it's there, and easily accessible, we turn to it quickly to solve problems. We don't explore other options, we're not patient to try new solutions, to wait for these solutions to take effect. We want fast, easy, quick. We're dealing with a complex breathing, living, live animal, one with feelings, emotions, and complex behaviours which deserve to be treated respectfully and as what they are. We would never dream of sending our babies to get their voiceboxes surgically manipulated just because they cry and wail and deprive us of sleep, cause us stress and generally make us slightly mad, so I don't see why we would do that to dogs. They are not beneath us. They don't rank lower than humans.

It's very sad when I read reports of shelties and collies being the breeds most debarked. They were originally bred BY MAN to bark, the same darn specie that now puts them through painful procedures to stop the barking. I think it's crazy. We should take some responsibility in what the different breeds have become and not come up with convenient procedures to make what we prized them for before, go away.

So, yes, I'm against it. Wholeheartedly. I would go so far to say that I would move heaven and earth to resolve a barking problem for any dog I might own rather than debark him. Heck, might as well put it on record that if I ever debark a dog, I'd do the same procedure on myself.

On a related note, I see you are thinking of getting a sheltie. If barking bothers you, you might want to reconsider the breed.

First, I have to say that I am a sufferer of laryngitis myself. I get it about every three months (we're currently looking into that). That being said, I also debark my habitual barkers. Having laryngitis is not a bother to me other than not being able to yell at the kids or dogs I can still communicate, just at a much lower level. It is the same with the dogs that I have debarked. They still bark at the sweeper, broom, neighbors, etc. I think others need to understand that Shelties were bred to warn us of danger to the flock. However, in this day and age, not every neighbor that walks down the street is a danger!

My dogs that bark are not bored or frustrated...just barking at what 'they' think I need to know about. And, no, I don't want to take that away from them so debarking works in a way that makes us all happy! They get to bark their bloody heads off and I don't have the cops on my doorstep daily In fact, they might be barking and playing with eachother which can still be an issue with the neighbors but I certainly don't want to train that out of them either.

The surgery cannot be that painful. All of mine that have ever been done, come home ready to eat and bark! I know if my throat was sore those are the two things that I would not want to do!

So I think that if someone has just a minimal amount of dogs or lives in an area where it isn't an issue, then debarking is senseless. But for those of us that have had the debarked dogs and see that they live a happy, healthy life it can mean the difference between keeping a dog or having to give it up!

Oh...and being the mom of 4 kids...I just 'might' consider doing the same to them LOL

 

[Silaria]

Edan is debarked though you really wouldn't be able to tell unless you really knew how a Sheltie is supposed to sound or have him around other Shelties. My little boy still has one heck of a bark on him and he barks at the slightest noise - even someone knocking on a door on the TV. It's more than loud enough to wake us up at night.

His breeder has all her dogs debarked as puppies because she lives in an older Western PA town and the houses are very close together. (The lots might be a 1/4 acre, maybe less.) She likes having a good relationship with her neighbors and, when you have 4 dogs plus the occasional puppy litter (she only breeds 1 of her dogs once a year; usually in the fall) it can get very loud.

I can't really say I'm 100% for or against it. My personal experience with Edan shows me it doesn't really negatively impact his day to day life. Honestly, in some ways I'm glad his bark is a bit quieter because I have 1 set of neighbors who are very quick to call the police for ANYTHING and have called the police on our Finnish Spitz's barking in the past. (For those unfamiliar with the Finnish Spitz, their nickname is "the barking bird dog of Finland". For us, a Sheltie bark at full volume wouldn't have been much different than Mel's bark.)

 

[OntarioSheltie]

When I first heard about debarking I was completely against it, I thought it sounded cruel. I still don't completely agree with it but I think its something that should be made available.

For those of us who don't have a dog that barks non stop I don't think we really have the right to judge others for having their dogs debarked because we may not know the whole story. I also know that thousands of dogs are surrendered to shelters all over the country, many because their owners don't know how to stop the barking. Its a REALLY sad reality, but if debarking lessens the number of dogs in shelters, preventing many from being euthanized, then I think its a procedure that should be done.

From what I've read, its not a painful procedure and it usually doesn't take the voice away completely, just quietens it. I know Sharon on this forum has said that her dog is debarked but still has a loud voice.

 

[shelly&sara]

This is a highly controversial topic.

Personally, I'm completely against it. It is a convenient way out for those who find barking annoying. The root of the barking is not addressed. Dogs bark for good reasons, because they are bored, frustrated, fearful, etc. After debarking, they bark softer and you ignore it completely because it no longer bothers you, but the dogs are still bored, frustrated, fearful, etc. The dogs' general welfare are conveniently brushed under the carpet. Imagine yourself with laryngitis and having lost your voice, trying hard to communicate with someone else, but that person doesn't really hear you. It's horribly frustrating and depressing. Why would you want to put your dog through that? I would rather tackle the root of the problem and fix that instead. Where there's a will, there's a way. A humane and non-physical way to help barking dogs bark less. Because it's there, and easily accessible, we turn to it quickly to solve problems. We don't explore other options, we're not patient to try new solutions, to wait for these solutions to take effect. We want fast, easy, quick. We're dealing with a complex breathing, living, live animal, one with feelings, emotions, and complex behaviours which deserve to be treated respectfully and as what they are. We would never dream of sending our babies to get their voiceboxes surgically manipulated just because they cry and wail and deprive us of sleep, cause us stress and generally make us slightly mad, so I don't see why we would do that to dogs. They are not beneath us. They don't rank lower than humans.

It's very sad when I read reports of shelties and collies being the breeds most debarked. They were originally bred BY MAN to bark, the same darn specie that now puts them through painful procedures to stop the barking. I think it's crazy. We should take some responsibility in what the different breeds have become and not come up with convenient procedures to make what we prized them for before, go away.

So, yes, I'm against it. Wholeheartedly. I would go so far to say that I would move heaven and earth to resolve a barking problem for any dog I might own rather than debark him. Heck, might as well put it on record that if I ever debark a dog, I'd do the same procedure on myself.

On a related note, I see you are thinking of getting a sheltie. If barking bothers you, you might want to reconsider the breed.

i totally AGREE it is a terrible thing to do in my eyes. people say it is a simple procedure but they are not the ones getting their voice taken away. it is an unnecessary surgery and in my view should be illegal. if a breeder recomended to me that i get her puppy debarked or it was ok to do. i wouyld not buy a pup from that person. maybe u should not get a sheltie. its like shedding bothering you and then u might want to shave it.
all just lazy cures for trates that are natural part of the breed. if these trates are not for u please get another breed. keep in mind all dogs bark just some more then others.