Two Approaches--which is better?

[Lahree]

On a walk, Ellie will still occassionally bark and jump up and down (like she is on a pogo stick) at another dog that barks at her (from it's enclosed back yard). She is really good at ignoring other dogs, but for some reason, she does NOT like this big Golden barking at her. When I was talking to my DH about it, we discovered we each have a different approach to handling it. I have no problem with what he does and he has no problem with what I do--but we decided we better get on the same page so as to not to confuse Ellie.

What I do: I make Ellie sit and calm down and do the "look at me." When she is relaxed and totally looking at me--we go forward again. The other dog will stop barking when Ellie sits, but will start up jumping, sometimes not. If she does, we do the whole sit and look at me thing again.

What DH does: He keeps walking because it is impossible for Ellie to be jumping like a pogo stick with forward motion. As he is walking, he says look at me and treats her when she does and he just keeps going. The other dog eventually stops barking when they are far enough away.

SO---opinions? If there are other options that other people have rather than the other two mentioned above, I would love to hear them.

She is really is a jewel on a walk. So well-behaved, but sometimes that GR gets under her skin, lol!

 

[dmeyer123]

Both of your approaches sound good to me. Dogs react to high out of control energy....ie: golden retrievers. I kind of like the keep walking, but asking for a look at me, because you don't have control of the behavior of the other dog and getting away from that energy takes care of the problem.

BTW...I agree with Ellie...golden retrievers can get under the skin...

 

[take4roll10]

I wouldn't make her sit and wait for her to become relaxed before you move forward. She's probably stressing out before she sits and it's not changing her feelings towards the dog.

Is Ellie clicker trained? I would click and treat her for looking at the dog. Even if it's for a nano-second. Just keep clicking and treating every time she looks at the fence or at the dog and doesn't react. This was she will associate the dog with treats and eventually when she sees the dog, she'll automatically look at you for her treat instead of jumping. I would also consider tossing treats on the floor instead of handing them to her. Toss them forward to keep her moving.

That's how I would handle it.

 

[Justicemom]

With Jazz, I always made her sit and give me full attention when she got into her high dog reactive states. But she was a JRT mix and motion was impowering to her. As time went along I could walk and tell her to watch me and keep going. I would do this before the lunging and barking started. After she did it was too late. I then had to get her to focus back on me.

I will say in early training I would have avoided that Golden and work on control sit with attention at a distance and then moved closer when she was calm. Remember the key is to be proactive. Give the watch me command or sit before the undesired behavior starts, dont' wait until they react. You will lose everytime. At that point it is best to leave and regroup.

I have to disagree with the teaching her to look at the other dogs. With Jazz, I trained her to never look at that other dog. I also teach this to my shelties. If she saw a dog I wanted her to look at me. Not stare down the other dog. If her attention was on me,the rest of the world didn't matter. When she was older I wouldn't even need to tell her to look at me when she saw a dog, she just would hoping for a treat. This was an extremely dog aggressive JRT mix mind you with a personal halo of over a 100ft. When she was 9yrs she could sit 2ft from another dog and ignore them.

 

[take4roll10]

I have to disagree with the teaching her to look at the other dogs. With Jazz, I trained her to never look at that other dog. I also teach this to my shelties. If she saw a dog I wanted her to look at me. Not stare down the other dog. If her attention was on me,the rest of the world didn't matter. When she was older I wouldn't even need to tell her to look at me when she saw a dog, she just would hoping for a treat. This was an extremely dog aggressive JRT mix mind you with a personal halo of over a 100ft. When she was 9yrs she could sit 2ft from another dog and ignore them.

You never want your dog to stare down the other dog. As soon as s/he glances at another dog, you click and they look at you for a treat. This way they're not staring at the dog. It's to change their association. It's really helped Bailey. By clicking the second she sees a dog, I'm changing her feelings towards that dog. Now she thinks dogs are a good thing because dogs = food from me. It's similar to saying "watch me", but it eliminates that extra step and helps counter condition them.

When you say "watch me", it's not necessarily changing their feelings towards other dogs because they're getting the treat for the looking at you command, not for calmly looking at the other dog. Sorry, I'm not good at explaining these type of things, but there's a good write up about it in "Controlled Unleashed." She calls it " The Look at that!" game. When I read this part, I was really happy because it was something I was already doing on my own.

 

[BarbV]

You are both right!

In puppy school, they taught us that when the dog is faced with a distraction, you need to redirect their focus on you.

On a walk, they recommended that you keep on walking, even if you have to haul the dog along a little and as soon as the dog looks at you again, you treat and praise. They need to be rewarded for keeping pace with you.

In the home, it might be different. The doorbell rings. Now you want the dogs to sit/stay before you answer it. And to stay there. The principle is the same (i.e. look at me!) but the execution is different. That's where sit/down rules come into play.

 

[Rambotherat]

I would keep moving.

I know you are concerned with your dog, but consider the golden and its owner for a moment. Would you want something that drove your dog nuts to stop and continue aggravating it?

Since both of your methods are fine for your dog, I would choose the one that benefitted the other dog too.

 

[Lahree]

The funny thing about the whole situation is we never know IF Ellie is going to go bonkers at this particular dog barking. In our neighborhood there is no way we can go for a walk without passing barking dogs. A lot of them. They are across a small field, they are not close. 98% of the time, Ellie ignores all of them. The other two percent that Golden bugs her and that's when we have a pogo-stick-barking-dog, which always surprises us, but it happens. She also does a low growl on a walk if she sees this dog. The dog always barks at her on a walk. The GR's owner and I will always cross so that we are not on the same sidewalk. I only have seen them on a walk at the same time as Ellie and I about 4 times in 2 years.

My thoughts in having her sit and look at me is that she has lost her momentum. Sitting because she was stressed is what she taught herself with cars. She sees a car, sit sits automatically. If she is walking when a car goes by, it's too much temptation, she will lunge and bark. I thought she would feel better and calmer if she could sit and focus and then we move forward with the dog, too.

I can definitely see the benfit of throwing treats in front of her! She is a chow hound! Could she ever see that as a reward for jumping though? I am always afraid that Ellie is soooo smart, that she will think if she does a naughty thing and I am trying to get her to stop by giving her a treat that she will focus on doing the naughty thing to GET the treat.

I know not all dogs like other dogs, but I wonder what it is about this dog------OH WAIT!! I just figured it out! ::slaps forehead:: This is the same breed of dog as the STUPID-NEIGHBOR-DOG!! DUHHHH!!

 

[Toffee's Mom]

lollll
DUH GR's are the devil!
Dear Ellie!!!
Oafish dogs with no decorum!!
I hatez them, they is too happy and bounzie
U getz kizzez frm me all da time for evry Golden Doodle or retriever or labz u bitez or grwwwwllll at


Signed, Toffee

 

[Justicemom]

You never want your dog to stare down the other dog. As soon as s/he glances at another dog, you click and they look at you for a treat. This way they're not staring at the dog. It's to change their association. It's really helped Bailey. By clicking the second she sees a dog, I'm changing her feelings towards that dog. Now she thinks dogs are a good thing because dogs = food from me. It's similar to saying "watch me", but it eliminates that extra step and helps counter condition them.

When you say "watch me", it's not necessarily changing their feelings towards other dogs because they're getting the treat for the looking at you command, not for calmly looking at the other dog. Sorry, I'm not good at explaining these type of things, but there's a good write up about it in "Controlled Unleashed." She calls it " The Look at that!" game. When I read this part, I was really happy because it was something I was already doing on my own.

I can see that point of that. But teaching them to look at you does change their feelings toward the other dog as well. Dog is present= look to mom and I will get a treat. Dog begans to equal treat in their minds as well. I guess it is different approaches to the same goal. But it teaches them a counter behavior as well. Which gives you a control command to use down the line.

With my hyperreactive terrier mix, She could not look at another dog with go into stare down mode. I never wanted to give her the chance to react because if she did I had lost the game. Believe me once she lost her mind,it was scary. I could not control the other dogs reaction to her so I needed to proactively control my dogs actions. Jazz liked other dogs as long as they followed the Jazz rules of life: what is mine is mine, whats yours is mine and if I don't want it is yours until I decide its mine, which a tiny bit of fear aggression thrown in for fun.

I guess that is the great thing about dog training as long as the principles of learning are applied the goal can be met different ways.



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