What happens to puppies that doesn't get sold?

[jasonsjwou]

Ok this might be a bit of a sensitive question, but I still want to ask.

More I learn about the dog/breeding/business, this is a questions that keeps coming up to me. Putting myself into a shoe of a breeder (as a business)


BREEDERS : What do you do with sheltie puppies that doesn't get sold?


I'm not talking about BYBs and puppy mills. I'm only talking about the "responsible" breeders.


- Do you sell all of your litter EVERY TIME you have them?

- As puppies reach 7-9 months old, they are no longer a puppy, and buyer who wants a puppy, is not going to buy them. Females are more popular than males. Some breeders (not BYB or anything... ones that has "breeder of merit" banner on them) charge $100 more for females. But Mother nature produces more males than females on average. So what happens to the male puppy who reaches age of 9 months and doesn't get sold?

- There are dozens of tips on "HOW TO CHOOSE YOUR PUPPY". Don't pick the first one coming to you, don't pick the runt, don't pick the timid, reserved, yappy ones, don't pick this, don't pick that, etc etc. Then what happens to the ones who doesn't get picked? I mean each litter you have 7-9 puppies, and not everyone can fit that description!

- Even if you have a barn with large kennels, you can't possibly keep all the "left over puppies" in your house. You'd have to let them go SOMEWHERE. WHere??


I know what happens to the cars that doesn't get sold in time. They get discounted, and discounted, and discounted. Then it gets sold to rental car companies.


Honestly. What happens to puppies?

I can see that the best answer is "every single puppy of every single litter that I had for the last 25 years were perfect in every way. They all found a good home" but I KNOW that's not the case.

 

[Silaria]

I am not a breeder but I do know what my breeder does with her puppies; she keeps them until the correct forever home comes along.

 

[Emmasmom]

My breeder is the same as Silaria. That, in fact, is how I was given Liam. The breeder couldn't find a forever home for him and offered him to me at no charge just so he would have a good forever home. I gladly took him. If her older pups don't get taken, she keeps them.

 

[tofu pup]

I can see that the best answer is "every single puppy of every single litter that I had for the last 25 years were perfect in every way. They all found a good home" but I KNOW that's not the case.

Umm... but it is, at least in our case. I'm sorry that you're so suspicious of the ethics of breeders. It rather bothers me that you seem to be convinced that we have very dirty secrets. I'm sorry to disappoint, but at least for my family, there aren't any.

No, not every puppy is perfect in every way - but they all find homes.

First: Part of being a responsible breeder is being a responsible matchmaker between puppies and families. We do not just let prospective buyers choose their own puppy. (There are different schools of thought on this, but this is how my mom and I do it.) "Don't pick the runt"? Some people strongly prefer smaller Shelties, and their lifestyles and families are a good fit for a smaller dog. "Don't pick the puppy who hangs back"? The puppy who hangs back may be having an off day. Again, too, some people and situations are a better fit for a less-outgoing puppy - the me-me-me dominant puppy may not be the puppy that's best suited to your family. All of this means that there aren't "reject" puppies that nobody wants because they aren't desirable.

Next: OK, what about the truly imperfect puppies? The ones with true congenital defects? That's a case-by-case basis. In twenty-two years, we've euthanized one puppy at four weeks due to hydrocephalus, and one at five weeks due to cerebellar hyperplasia (caused by birth injury, courtesy of the emergency vet). These puppies did not have acceptable quality of life.

We had another puppy (same litter, same birth trauma) with a less severe cerebellar hyperplasia. A family friend offered to take him in, and has given him an excellent home. Because he is local, he visits my mother often for grooming and boarding. Had we not been able to find a home for him, he would also have been humanely euthanized (because he requires special and dedicated care to have a good quality of life).

One puppy seemed perfectly fine until her first round of puppy shots and had a seizure that same night. Euthanasia was again considered; we did not know the severity or the cause of her condition, or whether she would have problems for the rest of her life. Again, though, we were able to find her a loving home with a vet who understood what she was getting into and wanted to give the little dog a chance. She is now thriving and hasn't seized since (although she has remained unusually small).

Bottom line: if a puppy has a severe defect that is incompatible with a quality life, he or she is humanely euthanized and, if necessary, a necropsy is performed to help us understand what went wrong and how that may affect our breeding program. If the defect is less severe but still requires special care, then the puppy is a candidate for a home, provided that the new owners understand the situation and are willing to take it on. So far, this has always been the case, If it were not - I think it would really be on a case-by-case basis as to whether we kept the puppy for life or opted for euthanasia. It all depends on the dog's quality of life and the resources that we can provide.

As to puppies who just "don't get sold"... well, sometimes they stay longer than we had planned. But that's OK. We also have occasionally had older puppies and young dogs who didn't "turn out" for the show ring, and will be placed. These find homes, too - you'd be surprised (or not) how many people are happy to get a slightly older puppy who is housebroken and already through most of the naughty-puppy stuff. They've all found good homes, and if it takes some time to find that home, that's OK.

It's important to understand your limits, and to not breed another litter if you still have puppies waiting for homes from the last one - but that's pretty common sense.

So: the answer is, if they don't find homes and don't have defects that would severely limit quality of life, they stay with us indefinitely. But, funny thing, it's never been a problem in the 22 years my mother's been breeding Shelties.

Putting myself into a shoe of a breeder (as a business)

I think you don't understand that this is not a business. We don't make money doing this. Between stud fees, vet bills, dog food, dog show costs, and everything else, it's a very good year if you break even. Remember, we're in this because we love dogs, because we love the breed, and because we enjoy showing Shelties. We're not here to make money, we're here to breed better Shelties to show. Puppies that aren't show-quality are sold to carefully-screened homes as pets, and the money from selling the puppies helps to offset the costs - but it certainly doesn't turn a profit.

 

[ClantyreSheltie]

You mean like do we euthanize them? or do like pet stores do and threaten to kill off the older one? or drop them at a shelter?

I have never had a litter of 7-9 puppies, and I have had 6 girls and 1 boy (4 tris and 3 merles) in two litters.

I had one puppy from my last litter that I had until she was about 8 months old. I registered her in my name, and she stayed with me until a lady called looking for a baby puppy. She had talked to our breeder referral person who suggested maybe she would like an older puppy already housebroken, past the chewing stage, and ready to go.

She and I talked for a long time, and she came out to visit the puppy. She took her home the same day. This puppy has attached herself to one of the three kids, chews naked ken dolls (including naked Justin Beiber doll, which caused the son to give her extra treats that day), and is having a fine life.

I would think if I still had a puppy from the last litter, that I wouldn't breed the next. Pretty simple solution. Since this is not a business, I don't have to worry about paying my mortgage from selling puppies.

 

[Silaria]

Umm... but it is, at least in our case. I'm sorry that you're so suspicious of the ethics of breeders. It rather bothers me that you seem to be convinced that we have very dirty secrets. I'm sorry to disappoint, but at least for my family, there aren't any.

No, not every puppy is perfect in every way - but they all find homes.

First: Part of being a responsible breeder is being a responsible matchmaker between puppies and families. We do not just let prospective buyers choose their own puppy. (There are different schools of thought on this, but this is how my mom and I do it.) "Don't pick the runt"? Some people strongly prefer smaller Shelties, and their lifestyles and families are a good fit for a smaller dog. "Don't pick the puppy who hangs back"? The puppy who hangs back may be having an off day. Again, too, some people and situations are a better fit for a less-outgoing puppy - the me-me-me dominant puppy may not be the puppy that's best suited to your family. All of this means that there aren't "reject" puppies that nobody wants because they aren't desirable.

Next: OK, what about the truly imperfect puppies? The ones with true congenital defects? That's a case-by-case basis. In twenty-two years, we've euthanized one puppy at four weeks due to hydrocephalus, and one at five weeks due to cerebellar hyperplasia (cause by birth injury, courtesy of the emergency vet). These puppies did not have acceptable quality of life.

We had another puppy (same littler, same birth trauma) with a less severe cerebellar hyperplasia. A family friend offered to take him in, and has given him an excellent home. Because he is local, he visits my mother often for grooming and boarding. Had we not been able to find a home for him, he would also have been humanely euthanized (because he requires special and dedicated care to have a good quality of life).

One puppy seemed perfectly fine until her first round of puppy shots and had a seizure that same night. Euthanasia was again considered; we did not know the severity or the cause of her condition, or whether she would have problems for the rest of her life. Again, though, we were able to find her a loving home with a vet who understood what she was getting into and wanted to give the little dog a chance. She is now thriving and hasn't seized since (although she has remained unusually small).

Bottom line: if a puppy has a severe defect that is incompatible with a quality life, he or she is humanely euthanized and, if necessary, a necropsy is performed to help us understand what went wrong and how that may affect our breeding program. If the defect is less severe but still requires special care, then the puppy is a candidate for a home, provided that the new owners understand the situation and are willing to take it on. So far, this has always been the case, If it were not - I think it would really be on a case-by-case basis as to whether we kept the puppy for life or opted for euthanasia. It all depends on the dog's quality of life and the resources that we can provide.

As to puppies who just "don't get sold"... well, sometimes they stay longer than we had planned. But that's OK. We also have occasionally had older puppies and young dogs who didn't "turn out" for the show ring, and will be placed. These find homes, too - you'd be surprised (or not) how many people are happy to get a slightly older puppy who is housebroken and already through most of the naughty-puppy stuff. They've all found good homes, and if it takes some time to find that home, that's OK.

It's important to understand your limits, and to not breed another litter if you still have puppies waiting for homes from the last one - but that's pretty common sense.

So: the answer is, if they don't find homes and don't have defects that would severely limit quality of life, they stay with us indefinitely. But, funny thing, it's never been a problem in the 22 years my mother's been breeding Shelties.



I think you don't understand that this is not a business. We don't make money doing this. Between stud fees, vet bills, dog food, dog show costs, and everything else, it's a very good year if you break even. Remember, we're in this because we love dogs, because we love the breed, and because we enjoy showing Shelties. We're not here to make money, we're here to breed better Shelties to show. Puppies that aren't show-quality are sold to carefully-screened homes as pets, and the money from selling the puppies helps to offset the costs - but it certainly doesn't turn a profit.

Fantastic post, Tofu Pup. While I was rather brief with my statement regarding my breeder, I know she goes to this level of detail as well.

And yes, jasonsjwou, some of us do prefer older puppies/young dogs. My Edan was 7 months old when I brought him home. I was actually LOOKING for a 1 year old dog when I found him.

jasonsjwou, if you find anyone doing this "as a business" run away from them as fast as you can.

 

[danisgoat]

Great post, Tofu Pup!

 

[tofu pup]

Thanks everyone! I know for certain that my mom isn't the only breeder who takes this approach. It's great to see other members coming out and speaking up!

 

[Emmasmom]

Great post, Tofu Pup!

I agree - well said. You and other breeders put the dog's care and comfort foremost in finding their forever home, even if it is with yourselves. Thank you for caring so much about your dogs.

 

[seashel]

I don't breed dogs myself but know a lot of breeders, every one will keep the puppies until a good home is found, as described above. People breeding literally as a business (not talking about the very odd occasion where there is some money over) where the priority is to make a profit, I would really struggle to associate with the term 'responsible'. Either the little lives you decide to bring into the world come first, or your pocket does.
I think it is important to add that responsibility for the puppy dosn't end when the new owner carries it out of the door either. As we were discussing in another thread, if the puppy/dog cannot stay with the owner for some reason, a year, 7 years, 14 years down the line, a good breeder will either take it back or do everything to find it a new home. Most will even have a contract stating the dog has to go back to them and not be passed to a shelter etc.

Having said this, there are those who I would not describe as particuarly responsible, who unfortunatly find themselves in a position where they have unsold puppies from a previous litter, the next bitch comes into season that they have been waiting for and she is mated anyway. It might be that the bar is lowered for those older puppies and perhaps less suitable buyers are accepted. Even then they will still do the best they can and not simply ship them off to a pet shop.

However, I really think the real issue of 'unwanted puppies' begins and ends at the puppy mills/farms. They are absolutely not going to hang on and wait for the right buyers to come along. Pups are shifted ASAP. If the market disappears due to bad press, competitors, economic reasons, I'm pretty sure pups bred in these places don't have much of a future at all.

I think this is a fair enough question to ask in general (there are a LOT of puppies being born) but like tofu pup, I am rather sorry that there does appear to be an element of suspicion that all breeders must have 'dirty secrets'.

Slightly off topic but I have noticed that the general perception the 'general public' has of breeders is that they are in it for the money, or the glory and
don't give a fig about the dogs. Yet chatting to breeders the opposite is true, they can be rather suspicious of the general public - are they good enough potential owners? I know in the UK after a certain TV programme was broadcast almost 3 years ago, the level of trust between buyers and breeders dropped overnight and has never really recovered. I think this is dreadfully sad - if people can't fully trust their breeder then to whom are they going to turn to for help, advice or even just a chat?