What would constitute "backyard" breeder for sheltie?

[corbinam]

Hey all! Been lurking here for a while trying to learn as much as I could about shelties since I'm planning to get one soon And this thread has me quite conflicted. I've been talking to a breeder, who's registered on AKC's site and seems reputable (health guarantee, titled parents, micro-chipped). She's even keeping one of the litter for herself. But she also hasn't asked me a single question about myself, our living arrangements or why I want a sheltie. And the parents aren't screened (was going to ask about that when I visited).

On the one hand, I would assume if she's keeping one the litter had to have been well planned out breed-wise? But then, I'm not sure... maybe she'll grill me when I show up to visit? Is there something I should pay careful attention to?

It seems like this could go either way...is this person a member of ASSA? Are they actively showing dogs? Do you know why she is keeping one of her dogs?

I would be a little hesitant to buy a dog from un-screened and un-tested parents (or untested somewhere along the line). Not because it makes that person a bad breeder, but because you never know when a disease that could be expensive, or even worse, heartbreaking, will crop up.

 

[Lightplum]

Hey all! Been lurking here for a while trying to learn as much as I could about shelties since I'm planning to get one soon And this thread has me quite conflicted. I've been talking to a breeder, who's registered on AKC's site and seems reputable (health guarantee, titled parents, micro-chipped). She's even keeping one of the litter for herself. But she also hasn't asked me a single question about myself, our living arrangements or why I want a sheltie. And the parents aren't screened (was going to ask about that when I visited).

On the one hand, I would assume if she's keeping one the litter had to have been well planned out breed-wise? But then, I'm not sure... maybe she'll grill me when I show up to visit? Is there something I should pay careful attention to?

hmmm this could go either way. Is she simply keeping a puppy because her breeding stock is getting old and she needs to continue to make money? Or is she doing it for another purpose ie, next agility dog, Conformation dog..etc. If its the latter than kudos...if not id walk away. As far as being registered with the AKC site as a breeder, again not bashing the AKC but they will post anyone as a registered breeder as long as they have papers and they pay a fee...so not indicative of an up and up breeder. A more reputible place to check out would be http://www.assa.org

I really like the idea of sending all puppies out micochipped. I'm liking it more and more. Breeders will do their best to make sure that a puppy is going to a great home, but stuff happens... and it's good to know that the dog always has a way to find you if it does.

Me too, this thread has got me thinking on the sending them to their new homes already chipped. It works in my favor two fold the way I see it. 1. If they ever decide to drop the dog off some where, when the dog is scanned it would bounce back to me. And 2. I think it would ensure people would keep me in contact if they were moving incase they ever lost their dog. Although I have to say ive been lucky with Jeters parents they are great and send me updates and pics all the time! Even sent me a pic of him eating his birthday cake

 

[Diana]

My background is that my auntie was a Sheltie breeder. So of course we got our Sheltie puppy from a breeder. Most of the local "Sheltie people" knew her name and were happy to help. I did look into rescue, but the local rescue group requires a fenced-in yard and we don't have that. Besides, the hobby breeders were much more helpful.

My experience is that some Sheltie breeders are super nice and knowledgeable. And some just aren't. It's not that they don't care.... but I think some Sheltie people are just not people-people. (Trying to think of a nice way to say this.)

I didn't buy a puppy from the first breeder we went to. Despite the fact that she had champion dogs and the puppies were adorable, my husband, mom, and I just walked out of the place, looked at each other, and shook our heads. It just wasn't right for us. It's hard to explain, but it seemed to me she was just thinking of her "pet" puppies as things to get rid of so she could concentrate on her other, more high-achieving dogs.

The things I would look for in an ideal breeder:

- Breeds for temperament as well as the traditional things like structure, etc. Temperament testing is a huge bonus.

- Mom (and dad, if he's there) are nice dogs who are pretty. (Remember that mom probably looks a bit odd because she's out of coat.)

- Is knowledgeable about shows, agility, training, and rescue in the area.

- Understands what diseases Shelties are prone to and tests for them.

- Really cares about where the puppies are going and asks thoughtful questions about me and my home.

- Has a contract that says the breeder will take back the puppies if all else fails rather than letting them go to a shelter.

You'll notice my list is a little different than the one on Sheltie Nation. I think everyone's is slightly different. My best advice is to trust your gut. If it doesn't feel right to you and you're asking if it's a BYB.... it probably is. You'll know a good breeder when you meet one and pet her dogs.

 

[Diana]

Me too, this thread has got me thinking on the sending them to their new homes already chipped. It works in my favor two fold the way I see it. 1. If they ever decide to drop the dog off some where, when the dog is scanned it would bounce back to me. And 2. I think it would ensure people would keep me in contact if they were moving incase they ever lost their dog. Although I have to say ive been lucky with Jeters parents they are great and send me updates and pics all the time! Even sent me a pic of him eating his birthday cake

Actually when I told my auntie we were looking for a puppy (she passed away before we got Buffy), this was one of the first things she said. Get a puppy who is microchipped. I found out that most of the breeders around here don't do microchipping because of the cost. But I can see it's a huge bonus. We got it done with Buffy was spayed... the vet recommended waiting till the puppy was a bit older since there are so many other shots and various things in the first few months.

 

[seashel]

I also meant to add that another plus for me is the breeder having older/old retired dogs around. To me that shows they acatually consider the dogs as companions, not just trophy collectors/breeding animals to be shipped out when they have served their purpose.
Absence of old/retired dogs wouldn't be a huge concern, as the breeder might have just started out, or have just lost an old dog, but if they are around it is an extra bonus point.

On the subject of contracts, its something which is frequently is discussed over here in the UK. I also wouldn't feel comfortable about purchasing a puppy, even from a breeder I knew very well, without signing a contract with something along the lines that the dog is returned to them if you can't keep it.

Good dog breeders only want the very best for their puppies, babies which they have nurtured, watched grow and develop for two months, worried over and come to love. Most will tell you the worst thing is having to part with them when the time comes, wondering what the future holds for these little lives they are responsible for. They consider the responsibility lasts not until the pup leaves with its new owner, but for the whole of it's life. This is the reason for some of these seemingly overprotective clauses in the contracts. If there is something in the contract which you are uncertain about, then ask the breeder to explain it (this is a membership requirement of our KC Accredited Breeder Scheme, that they go through the contract with the purchaser).

 

[rosegardener]

Hi Jason, just thought I'd put in my 2 cents worth. Our Sheltie was from an older couple on a farm, trying to supplement their retirement income. We thought it was perfect, and bought one without a thought to health problems. My sis had had 2 Shelties, and another friend had one going on twenty years of age, in amazing condition.

Alice had arthritis very early, heart problems and Sheltie Skin Disease at age eight, and two of her back teeth removed at age nine, in spite of regular cleanings at the groomer. We had no clue what to do for her, health-wise. She died at age ten, and was the best dog we ever had. We thought she'd last so much longer, with little care other than grooming and shots. Our vet never commented on her teeth, and we learned about genetic issues when they occurred. We had had very hardy dogs before, a foxhound and lab mix, who lived to age 14 and 16, and were very healthy.
We, too, thought it was all the same wherever we looked, just a good old dog, no need to make a fuss.

So, my opinion is that the looks and papers are all dandy, but the bottom line is the health testing and finding a superior, not just adequate, vet.

It might help to ask, what if your dog ends up to be more than a dog--one of those great spirits that all your friends and relatives admire and love, and he or she only lasts a decade?

We will miss our girl forever.

 

[Ann]

I'm still learning. I feel that it's much better to pester the forum instead of doing something that I cannot follow through.

You are not pestering us; we welcome your questions! This is a very valuable conversation for anyone looking for a puppy. Yes, there are many wonderful dogs in Rescue, there is no doubt about that, and they make wonderful, loving pets. But there are assurances you get from a good breeder, and advice or help if you ever need it.

I like the idea of knowing my dog's history, lineage, and what I can expect in terms of temperament. Those are very important factors to me. I also appreciate knowing that if something ever happened to me, my dog would have a home with my breeder, who is always willing to take them back if needed.

I wish more people asked the kind of questions you are before they choose a dog. It's every bit as important to choose the breeder as it is to choose the puppy.

 

[KarenCurtis]

Most of breeders that I have contacted, wants me to sign a purchase contract. Some appear overly restrictive, and some even says the breeder reserves right to take the dog away from me and fine me for thousands of dollars. While I totally understand the purpose of such contract and the extraneous circumstances this may happen, but I cannot and WILL NOT sign such a document.

I personally would not sign a contract that states the breeder reserves the right to fine me for thousands of dollars. That is threatening and I don't think it would hold up in any court. I think if a breeder feels that he/she has to go that far, something is weird. I also would not want to buy from a breeder who checked up on me after I bought the dog, and who wanted to be overly involved.
I would sign a contract which states that if I could not take care of the dog I would return it to the breeder. That is very reasonable and is something that shows the care the breeder has for the dog. Sandstorms breeder let us know she wanted us to give her updates on Sandstorm, and we do. But she also was very confident that when she sold him to us, the dog was in very good hands. That is why I wanted to buy from an experienced breeder only. My husband and I were flattered, because she really loved Sandstorm, he was her favorite.

 

[Ainsley's mom]

Just a quick way to screen for (bad) backyard breeders: If the first, or one of the first things they say to you when you call is "the pups sell for $x," you are probably dealing with a backyard breeder, and I would suggest finding a polite way to hang up and trying another breeder.

If the first thing that the breeder says is something like "why do you want a sheltie?" "what do you plan to do with your dog?" "what kind of home can you give the puppy?" This is a breeder worth considering. I probably could have adopted a child easier than I got my dog!

Contracts are pretty common among dog breeders of all breeds. I signed a spay neuter contract (you shouldn't have a problem with that as you won't be breeding your dog) and the contract requiring me to return my dog to the breeder if for some reason I could no longer keep her. Actually, I found that one comforting, as I have no close family who could take Ainsley if for some reason I couldn't keep her. The breeder also gave me a signed health guarantee regarding hereditary heath issues. Although no one can actually guarantee health, the fact that she was willing to sign one indicated that she was comfortable with the health of her dogs, and the clear testing they had received for several generations. (the guarantee provided me with the choice of any other puppy in a future litter) Incidentally, many breeders will hold the papers on a pet dog until you provide proof that it has been spayed or neutered. This is pretty common, so I wouldn't worry about that one.

Some people think that buying from a show breeder is more expensive, but that isn't always the case. Pet puppy prices may not be that much more than you would pay at a pet store. The breeder is more interested in finding the right home for the pup.

My dog's breeder turned down several people who were willing to pay the asking price because she felt that they would not provide the proper home for this particular dog (this didn't necessarily mean that they wouldn't be a good home, just not the home for this pup). I would be embarrassed to tell you how little I actually paid for Ainsley, but it was less than one third of the asking price because I could provide the ideal home for her. And this was for a dog that was bred and raised for show, but developed a VERY slight overbite that kept her out of the show ring. The breeder obviously didn't make any money on that one!

I still keep in touch with the breeder. I send her updates on how Ainsley is doing, and she sends me any info (breed, health etc) that she feels would be of interest. I also know that she is there if I have any questions or problems with my dog.

For me, that is a responsible breeder.

 

[missjenneygirl]

I sleep very well at night...with the comfort that my puppies are loved beyond words by the families that adopt them. I am NEVER motivated by money, and must have a comfortable connection with the family to allow them to have one of my puppies. If prospective owners want to buy one of my pups and say "so long", I am not interested. I love hearing about our puppies growing and the antics that amuse their familes. And, oh my, the Christmas cards over the years! I can not thank them enough for the devotion and care they give our wee ones. I have met so many wonderful people that have our pups, that now we have become long time friends. It's a wonderful life!