Article on De-barking

Not to be antagonistic, Sheltieguy, but dogs are dogs and kids are kids. Yes we love our pets, but they are not children.

For example, I would NEVER neuter my son....but don't think twice about neutering my dog.

Just a thought :biggrin2:

:lol:hahahhaaa Neutering kids...I know some adults who need to be done...but thats another thread:biggrin2:
 
Not to be antagonistic, Sheltieguy, but dogs are dogs and kids are kids. Yes we love our pets, but they are not children.

For example, I would NEVER neuter my son....but don't think twice about neutering my dog.

Just a thought :biggrin2:

I don't have children, but if you ask anyone, I would do anything for my dogs - they ARE my children. My parent's don't get it and think I am crazy. And that is fine with me. My dogs have it better than I do. I take what I do to my babies VERY seriously, just as a mother would to her human kids. I question and research everything before I do it. I do not take my vets or anyone's opinion without looking into it and making an informed decision. Just my two sense.
 
I don't have children, but if you ask anyone, I would do anything for my dogs - they ARE my children. My parent's don't get it and think I am crazy. And that is fine with me. My dogs have it better than I do. I take what I do to my babies VERY seriously, just as a mother would to her human kids. I question and research everything before I do it. I do not take my vets or anyone's opinion without looking into it and making an informed decision. Just my two sense.

Oh...I am not debating that. My dogs are my "babies" as well, and are treated as part of our family. But my girl dogs are spayed and my boy dogs are neutered. But I would not spay or neuter my kids :wink2:

See my point :biggrin2: If it was a matter of giving up my dog....or debarking them.....my choice would be debarking them.

My children...I would just give them up before debarking them :lol:

Kidding :razz:
 
Well, I have two daughters. My daughter, Nikki, and my dogger, Meggie. Nikki swears that Meggie is more spoiled and more loved than she ever was. I keep trying to tell her that Meggie just came along when money wasn't so tight!

Regarding the issue at hand, debarking, I'm with those that say I'd debark before I rehomed my baby. Meggie's breeder debarks all of her dogs. They don't seem any worse for the wear. They're quite happy, well adjusted dogs, actually.

This said by someone who declaws her cats, so judge as you may. I'm comfortable with the decisions I make for my animals. They are loved beyond measure and cared for with patience and kindness.
 
When I first read the article this morning, there weren't any comments -- 4:30 am is too early I guess. Right before I posted here on the forum, I refreshed the Times page and WHOA!!!!

The comments interest me because I'm not sure how many non-dog people even know about debarking (or even dog people, for that matter). I figured it would raise pretty vehement camps, and it did.

Right now I don't have an issue with Dee or Gus, but I'll tell you one of my past Dobies, Harley, about drove me over the edge. For the first 6 years of his life he was a fairly average barker. Suddenly, over a few months time, he became uncontrollable when outside. It started the minute he stepped out the door. There was no instigation (people, squirrels, other dogs) and no apparent reason for this. Nothing had changed environmentally either. Vet checked out fine (she never mentioned debarking and I was unaware of it). Tried a shock collar, positive and negative reinforcement---nothing worked. After a few months I started hearing from my neighbors (good people who really don't complain) about the incessant noise. I felt terrible, was stressed out to the max, and absolutely dreaded letting Har out for even a minute.

In total desperation, I bought a muzzle as a last-ditch effort. It killed me, but I was at wit's end. Har, of course, hated it and every time he saw the thing he woulld run in the opposite direction. This muzzling" at the door went on for months until he died very suddenly of bloat at 7 years old. My guilt that he spent his last year constrained when outside was immense.

I can say now that I definitely would have had him debarked if I had known about this procedure at the time. Re-homing him wasn't an option I even considered.

For me, the hindsight is that dogs change (agreeing that some breeds are more vocal), people change, and circumstances change, too. What we wouldn't necessarily do today, we may be faced with tomorrow.

Just one more point and I'll pipe down. When I was in my Dobie phase back in the 90's, there was no question that tails would be docked and ears cropped. I bought good quality dogs from reputable breeders, too. Today, the thinking is that ear cropping is inhumane and it's difficult now to even find a vet who will do it. I write this horrified that I bought into this 20 years ago and subjected my pups to that pain and months of uncomfortable ear training. I would never do that again, but won't judge those who choose to do so. It is, of course, still the standard you see in the ring here in the US, although I understand cropping has been outlawed in Europe. It's considered "cosmetic" canine surgery.

I'll end on this note: there is certainly no doubt that all of us here are devoted dog lovers. We all want and do the best we can for our "kids." And if (when) we need to make a decision on this issue, let's engage our hearts with our minds, and we'll make the right choice.
 
Keeping on the light side.....

There was a time when a very common statement coming out of my mouth was..........."If I had it to do over, I would have raised shelties rather than children" and during that same time nuetering, spaying and debarking the CHILDREN was not far from my mind. Gggrrrrrr.........teenagers!

I know people on both side of the fence of this issue, and I understand both sides. I am just very glad I have never had to face the decision. Cleveland barked but he could stop if you told him to. MMM is not a barker, just a MESS MAKER!

BTW: Further to RetiredProf note, dogs change and so do people; the kids are now 24, 22 and 21 and are very nice young adults, and I am very glad I didn't trade them in for shelties!............wellllll........... :rolleyes2::rolleyes2:
 
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I don't have children, but if you ask anyone, I would do anything for my dogs - they ARE my children. My parent's don't get it and think I am crazy. And that is fine with me. My dogs have it better than I do. I take what I do to my babies VERY seriously, just as a mother would to her human kids. I question and research everything before I do it. I do not take my vets or anyone's opinion without looking into it and making an informed decision. Just my two sense.

I am with you Ania.. He IS my SON. He has fur and four legs... but still my son... i have no wife or children.. no parents or grandparents.. I have one twin brother (not identical) and my furson Snickers. I lost my job and I literally eat cheap food (hotdogs..soup... on sale stuff) so I can get my boy better food. (so some may think i am crazy ,,, but when I think about how my last dog suffered and died in my arms ...it seems like the right thing for me to do .) For the lucky people with real children: I am sure you would go without something for them ... well that is how i feel.

FROMM (they have great food and a great heart as well) gave me a bunch of coupons to help me and my SON out. I sent them a long letter of appreciation.Maybe FROMM isnt the best food but they went out of their way to help me and I am grateful for that.

And yes I understand that a situation may arise that you have to move due to money issues or for a job ... and well to be honest I hope none of us have to consider debarking as part of the issue.(if it happened to me I dont know what I would do to be honest). Of course I wouldnt give him up .

So yes I understand that in some instances i guess you do what you gotta do . But for me personally it would break my heart to do that to my boy.

If you are in favor of debarking .... we can agree to disagree... I am not here to judge or be judged. Debate and discussion is how we all learn.
 
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I will begin by saying - I had a sheltie poisoned and die because of barking.

A young vet has been coming to our dog oval (she just graduated lastyear). She was against debarking but supports electronic collars! She trained in Qld, where electronic collars are used regularly, but debarking is restricted. After spending some time with a large number of dog owners and meeting some debarked dogs she has changed her mins. Often the opponents of debarking have no experience with it.

Now Deska's barking has gotten out of control again. I have seen two behaviourists, tried every type of collar and every type of method for shutting him up. I live in a body corp and have been told I will be thrown out if there is another complaint. So what happens then? The only reason Deska isnt debarked now is because of his car chasing. Currently he is stuck inside the house all the time - not much fun for him, I think he would rather be debarked and outside than have his freedom limited. Of course I am also worried about losing another sheltie to a nasty neighbour.

BTW - There are many examples of elective surgery on children done to improve life rather than for health. There is even still major disagreement amongst health prof about whether or not tonsils should be removed. My parents had my tonsils removed. My SIL had her ears pinned as a child - purely cosmetic but gave her a better quality of life.
 
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