Collection
- Thread starter Sharon
- Start date
corbinam
Moderator
ehm, sorry for the question, but... I can translate collection work, but not imagine the exact meaning...
I would be glad, if you could explain it for me
True collection (basically impossible) is when the dog takes off for the jump at the jump’s height, and lands at the jump’s height’s distance away from the jump. So for my dogs, the dog jumps at around 16” from the jump, over the 16” jump, and lands 16” from the jump.
Jumping in extension is when a dog flattens out and completely extends their body over the jump.
Silvia Trkman's cik and cap are examples of cues for collection. On her website here you can see the first picture is extension, and the second is collection.
Not so. (it is possible)
True collection as you described is most certainly possible assuming a dog is physically sound & has the mechanical skills to do so. It most likely will require training but the skill to change from full extension at speed to true collection for a turning obstacle can be achieved if cued appropriately. True collection is not always required or desired & relative collection will often be sufficient and in some cases it may not even matter what degree of collection or extension a dog is running in so long as it reads & responds to the turning cues appropriately.
All comments IMO.
corbinam
Moderator
Not so. (it is possible)
True collection as you described is most certainly possible assuming a dog is physically sound & has the mechanical skills to do so. It most likely will require training but the skill to change from full extension at speed to true collection for a turning obstacle can be achieved if cued appropriately. True collection is not always required or desired & relative collection will often be sufficient and in some cases it may not even matter what degree of collection or extension a dog is running in so long as it reads & responds to the turning cues appropriately.
All comments IMO.
Interesting! Honestly, I just learned the definition of "true collection" this year, and was told by my instructor that it is basically impossible.
corbinam
Moderator
ok, I really thank you both - it's clearer now
I never trained this - Quilpie does/decides it himself, when it's needed, so I never thought about...
It really depends on the dog--some dogs are quite good at it without trying, and some are not. I never thought about it with my first dog, but now I realize how important it is now that I have my second. She never collects
it's too slow!Here is a link showing differences between extension, relative collection & true collection:
http://www.youtube.com/user/awesomepaws?feature=mhee#p/c/6/9wGJxaQnmn4
http://www.youtube.com/user/awesomepaws?feature=mhee#p/c/6/9wGJxaQnmn4
She never collects
Mine was the same early on. Everything was in extension. For some dogs the physical structure might make it more difficult - especially if the dog is front loaded. It is important for a dog to learn the skill of collection, not just for improving jump efforts and turning but in other areas as well that may call upon weight shift from the front assembly to the rear. Anyone with a dog with 2o2o contacts should help their dog learn this weight shift.
In terms of jumping, those dogs that dont collect but need to turn tight will often turn wide, traveling a greater distance. Some may bear the cost of not collecting with more stress on their front assembly when landing and trying to turn. You will see at trials some dogs who slide, or are otherwise less stable than ideal trying to turn while in extension.
We really shouldnt think about extension or collection as fast and slow although it is only natural to think that way. It really is about how the dog is mechanically using its physical abilities as appropriate for the task -- if driving 65mph and there is a sharp turn you are hardly likely to want to be speeding up if you want to maintain control
corbinam
Moderator
Mine was the same early on. Everything was in extension. For some dogs the physical structure might make it more difficult - especially if the dog is front loaded. It is important for a dog to learn the skill of collection, not just for improving jump efforts and turning but in other areas as well that may call upon weight shift from the front assembly to the rear. Anyone with a dog with 2o2o contacts should help their dog learn this weight shift.
In terms of jumping, those dogs that dont collect but need to turn tight will often turn wide, traveling a greater distance. Some may bear the cost of not collecting with more stress on their front assembly when landing and trying to turn. You will see at trials some dogs who slide, or are otherwise less stable than ideal trying to turn while in extension.
We really shouldnt think about extension or collection as fast and slow although it is only natural to think that way. It really is about how the dog is mechanically using its physical abilities as appropriate for the task -- if driving 65mph and there is a sharp turn you are hardly likely to want to be speeding up if you want to maintain control
Yes, you are right. We have tried a lot of different methods to work on her collection. Firstly, our switch the APHS has helped a lot. Cuing her earlier (duh--but we didn't know better) has definitely made a difference.
We are trying to work the recall to heel positions as often as we can, but the more obstacles you add before you ask for the collected RTH position, the less likely that Lexi will choose to do it.
We also do quite a bit of jump grids, etc...but they don't usually translate on course.
I am hoping to save up money to take Silvia's class with cik/cap, but they are expensive so that may not happen for a bit.
And yes, you're right too when you say it isn't about speed. That was just a joke pretending to be from Lexi's perspective, that collection is "too slow and boring". Clearly it was a gap in training on my part.