color questions

[Fergus]

PLUS, if you ever want to do any CKC sanctioned events like agility, obedience, rally-o, herding etc. you have to have the papers!

You can always apply for a Permanent Event Number (PEN) to participate in CKC events (other than conformation) if you can't get registration papers. Dogs have to be spayed/neutered though.

And theoretically, in Canada, an unregistered dog can not be considered 'purebred'. To be sold as purebred, it would have to be registered with an accepted registry. Not that this ever stops the BYBs with their internet ads of "purebred [insert any popular breed here], no papers". I can't decide if those irritate me more or less than the reams of every combination of poo puppies going for $1000+.

 

[Caro]

I can't decide if those irritate me more or less than the reams of every combination of poo puppies going for $1000+.

A new pet DNA company est this year did a test of the 'oodle' crosses in Australia and found that the majority of those that looked like poodles actually were just poodles, they didn't have the mix in them. The theory is that the puppy farms rather than risk pups that don't get the poodle fur (because the big sell with 'oodle' crosses is they are non-shedding) just breed the poodles. But then they sell them as crosses and get the bigger bucks.

 

[Smudge]

Which brings me to another good point - if you want a mixed breed so bad why not just go to an animal shelter? There are tons of dogs who would love a nice home.

 

[spazzydog]

who is that directed to smudge me? I don't want a mixed breed....both my shelties would be purebred just no papers.....The male pup i'm looking at is out of 2 regesterable shelties,bought from a breeder in the states,but the owners bred instead of spay/neuter,hence no papers.I would also be getting the pup genitically tested and health checked....though I'm not sure where you get it done...a link someone posted in a different thread to a lab that does the testing,according to the site is no longer testing,the lab i send my horse stuff to hasn't started doing dogs as of yet though they say they will be

 

[Smudge]

who is that directed to smudge me? I don't want a mixed breed....both my shelties would be purebred just no papers.....The male pup i'm looking at is out of 2 regesterable shelties,bought from a breeder in the states,but the owners bred instead of spay/neuter,hence no papers.I would also be getting the pup genitically tested and health checked....though I'm not sure where you get it done...a link someone posted in a different thread to a lab that does the testing,according to the site is no longer testing,the lab i send my horse stuff to hasn't started doing dogs as of yet though they say they will be

I wasn't directing it at anybody. I didn't mean to come across as being hateful. I'm sorry if I did. I just have a hard time grasping paying $700 for a labrapoodle, a labradoodle, a shihpoo, a snorkie, or anything like that when there are tons of pets on death row at the animal shelter that are mixed breeds. I don't want anybody else to go through what I am going through right now or have to learn lessons the hard way like I am.

I also don't think shelties without papers are evil. I don't think you should pay for a sheltie without papers though. There's something that doesn't sit right with me with a breeder who can't produce papers. If a puppy mill can go through the trouble of getting papers then a responsible breeder surely should be able to.

 

[spazzydog]

np i didn't think you were being snarky lol.I would love to get papers for the boy,but unfortunately the parents no breed contract will keep me from going there.

 

[Lightplum]

I havent read every thread here however if the parents where sold on Spay/Neutrer contracts there is a reason for that..it may be something that you may not outwardly notice wrong that would exclude them from their breeding program. As far as wanting to breed because your dog has a good temperment thats great but thats only a fraction of what the entire piece of the breeding puzzle is made up of. Im not saying your dam or sire needs to be a CH in order to be breed, infact there are several dogs in the breed that are not CH and have their ROM due to producing outstanding offspring.

However with all that being said, im sure you will do what you want to and that is fine, but please make sure you do all the genetic testing, and know what recessive traits are in both the lines you are breeding because they can pop up and lead to very unhealthy quality puppies and they didnt ask to be brought into the world to suffer.

 

[clancyh8sabby]

Ok...getting in the fray again!!

I have a few questions...
First, I see you breed your horses and you do testing..thats great!! I think breeding horses is alot different then dogs..for one thing dogs have litters, sometimes BIG litters. So theres more of a challenge finding homes. Plus with a horse, people don't dump them (not as easily anyway) to shelters or even to the side of the road. The dog breeders I have dealt with have always stated they would take the pup back if it didn't work out..at any time in their life...is that something you would be prepared to do??

On that same vein...have you looked at shelters and Sheltie rescues to see how many dogs are there?? Do you in all good concience want to add to that?? Because theres a good chance that atleast one of your pups could land there.

You say you want to breed to get good agility dogs...but you haven't even seen if one of your dogs is good for that sport..so how do you know that their off spring would produce agility dogs??

Your prospective male can't get papers because his first owners didn't honor the neuter contract..ummm...red flag!! This means he isn't good breeding material!!
Just because he is a pure Sheltie does not mean he should be bred!!
Shelties are well known for throwing all kinds of sizes in the same litter...and I would imagine other "faults" as well...so things like that are hard to control in the best of dogs...breeding a dog that was sold as a pet isn't going to be a best prospect...Why not consider a better choice in a male??

I'm not gonna get into the registering thing..I think the bigger issue is the breeding just for the sake of breeding...
Unless you are breeding to improve the breed...it shouldn't be done..period.
I hope you really think long and hard on why you really want to breed these dogs...Really consider the dogs..are they really that great of a representitve of the breed?

Then theres the health of your dogs...Having puppies can be hard on your pet...plus a intact female and male run risks of health..cancers and other things...

Julie
Clancy & Abby

 

[spazzydog]

Ok...getting in the fray again!!

I have a few questions...
First, I see you breed your horses and you do testing..thats great!! I think breeding horses is alot different then dogs..for one thing dogs have litters, sometimes BIG litters. So theres more of a challenge finding homes. Plus with a horse, people don't dump them (not as easily anyway) to shelters or even to the side of the road. The dog breeders I have dealt with have always stated they would take the pup back if it didn't work out..at any time in their life...is that something you would be prepared to do??
Yes I would sell with a buy back clause

On that same vein...have you looked at shelters and Sheltie rescues to see how many dogs are there?? Do you in all good conscience want to add to that?? Because theres a good chance that at least one of your pups could land there.

You say you want to breed to get good agility dogs...but you haven't even seen if one of your dogs is good for that sport..so how do you know that their off spring would produce agility dogs??
I never intended on breeding rt away IF i do at all,The boy is only 6 wks old,and as I stated in my original post,If the course isn't full.Ill be starting agility this fall with my female,I have shown a few agility people what she can do and they feel she will do quite well.

Your prospective male can't get papers because his first owners didn't honor the neuter contract..ummm...red flag!! This means he isn't good breeding material!!
just going on what my friend said the breeder was willing to leave him in tact but there was quite a price difference.At the time she had no intention of breeding or showing him so she took the cheaper route.

Just because he is a pure Sheltie does not mean he should be bred!!
Shelties are well known for throwing all kinds of sizes in the same litter...and I would imagine other "faults" as well...so things like that are hard to control in the best of dogs...breeding a dog that was sold as a pet isn't going to be a best prospect...Why not consider a better choice in a male??

I'm not gonna get into the registering thing..I think the bigger issue is the breeding just for the sake of breeding...
Unless you are breeding to improve the breed...it shouldn't be done..period.
I hope you really think long and hard on why you really want to breed these dogs...Really consider the dogs..are they really that great of a Representative of the breed?

Then theres the health of your dogs...Having puppies can be hard on your pet...plus a intact female and male run risks of health..cancers and other things...

Julie
Clancy & Abby

I do know the risks and expenses involved .If anyone can point the way I'd also like to get the genetic testing on my female and male I choose.
I do have whelping experience(ranch i worked on let their female blue heelers have 2 litters / yr.I helped with 11 litters birth-homes (7 on my own).And training the ones we kept on the ranch.
I'm hoping to stay with this forum and continue sharing growth pics,genetic results,and accomplishments of my possible two.At the end of the day it will be my choice where i proceed from here,Though i will continue to listen to all advice and ideas everyone has a opinion and the right to express it.Anyone Have a champion reg stud they'd like to stand in Canada? lol jk.Ty for keeping this thread civil....Its good to see people able to express thoughts on a forum and not get their heads bit off.

 

[Smudge]

Ok...getting in the fray again!!
Plus with a horse, people don't dump them (not as easily anyway) to shelters or even to the side of the road.

You must have missed my post about the Shetland pony who was put into our local animal shelter. True story. Here's the link:

http://www.hotsr.com/news/WireHeadlines/2009/07/19/roaming-pony-of-south-arkansas-rescued-b-2.php

That's not my local paper though. I was googling for the article and that was the first one that came up. That's the town that I go shopping in since my town is so small.