Genetic Problems in Sablemerles??????

G

Grumpy Bluemerle

Forums Novice
Hello,
This is my first Thread here, I tried the search, but haven´t found anything so far......
I am german and live there, therefore I apologise if my English is a bit rusty

Here in Germany most clubs breeding Shelties forbid the mating between sable and merle. Some say for practical reasons, as it can be very difficult to see in a grown-up dog, whether carries the merle-gen or not---> possible matings between two merles, and those are forbidden by animal-protection-laws.

But there are others who state very firmly, that the true reason is a genetic defect often found in sablemerles. The sable and the merle gen would not "harmonise" and the pups could be born with a handicap or have a high risc to geneticaly tend to overweight.

One of my shelties is a sablemerle, and he has heartproblems and is fat, but I am convinced that heavy In-Line-Breeding is more responsible for his condition. I was called rather stupid, because I can´t see the problem with sablemerles.....
Has anyone here ever heard or read about this???
As far as I know it is allowed to breed this color in GB and USA, so maybe there ist more data about it as well?
__________________
Bye for now,
Grumpy
 
No, I haven't heard of that. I know about double merles though. I've read that you should never breed a sable to a merle, because it could have the merle gene and produce a double merle if bred.
Somebody correct me if I'm wrong on this, please.
 
Hi Grumpy, I have never heard of genetic problems specific to sable merles ever. I will ask around to fellow sheltie fanciers I know. I would tend to lean like you, toward the line breeding or just happenchance.

Sable merles are allowed to be shown in UKC conformation, as are any color including the color headed whites. I would have to look up if sable merles are allowed to be shown in Akc. It is permitted here to breed them, there are no restrictions, but I think sometimes it is 'frowned upon' because of that very reason of inexperienced breeders not knowing which puppies are merle and/or not explaining it clearly to a buyer who might potentially down the road breed unknowingly to a merle.


'I've read that you should never breed a sable to a merle, because it could have the merle gene and produce a double merle if bred.'

Hi Graydawn- no, a sable bred to a merle could never produce a double merle. Double merles are only the result of two merle's being bred. The merles could be Blue merle, bi blue merle, sable merle or a double merle bred again to another merle.

The product of a sable x merle would be -
regular sables & sable merles, simliar to a tri x merle could result in tri's and merles. Hope this helps. :smile2:


Jazzy
 
I am not aware of genetic problems in sable merles. I have seen one in an AKC conformation show. I thought that she was beautiful as I had previously only seen blue merles- also very pretty but more common. I talked to the handler and was told that it's hard to compete with a sable merle as the judges don't seem to score them as well as blues or regular sables.
 
Thank you for yor replies so far!
Some people can be quite aggrssive if one doesn´t believe every word they say. And the source of that theory is rather high up in one of the breeding-clubs.......
 
I know that sometimes a dog that appears to sable can in fact be a "phantom" merle -- a dog that is carrying the merling gene but whose coat didn't dilute much. So breeding a sable whose genetics you aren't familiar with to a merle could be risky.

I can't think of any other reason to avoid a sable to merle cross, though. And I do not know of any genetic problems inherent to sable merles. Everyone does have their own opinion though. Smoke is a blue merle color headed white and to hear some people talk he should have dozens of terrible genetic disorders. He doesn't listen to them, and he does just fine :wink2:
 
Sable Merle

I would be interested in any information that comes to light about genetic problems in sable merles. My Maggie is a sable merle and she is just fine. I had never heard of any problems, but then there is always something new to learn. I will be watching the forum for any updates.


Love them Shelties


Maggie's Mom
 
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