Limited Registration question

[Smudge]

I have a question about limited registration. Limited Registration is when a breeder sells a dog but the dog is not allowed to be bred and receive papers, right? I googled it to double check.

How then, do puppy mills and byb get registration papers? Like if Joe Dog went and purchased a puppy or two from somebody and the puppies were sold on limited registration how could he get the AKC papers for the puppies he would be breeding for?

Even puppy mills sell dogs on limited registration. So how are they producing puppies with papers if the dogs are being sold on limited registration?

I hope that made sense.

 

[MissSuzie]

Jessica, I don't know anything about what you're asking. I just had to say that the picture of Fluffy just kills me. She is sooooooooo cute!!

 

[LDLegacies]

Limited/Full Registration

Breeders can place a puppy to someone with Limited AKC Reg. which means that they are being placed as a companion, no breeding, no reg of litters as Spay/Neuter is recommended/required. However, The BYB and Puppymills only have to submit that AKC paper to APRI to receive Registration papers for the dogs and litters. If they dont have any papers on the dog, Then they can take a picture, say its a purebred and have 2 witnesses sign the paperwork and the dog can be reg through CKC (Continenetal kennel club). Pretty sad......

Just because a person raises AKC reg dogs doesnt mean that they are getting a quality pup from a quality breeder, just a more trackable mineage, provided the breeder is honest in his paperwork!

Hope that helps you some,
Patti

 

[missjenneygirl]

I will try to explain, and hopefully it will make sense. Puppy Mills and BYB, have open registrations on their breeding stock. The puppies they sell to the public, are on a limited registration. If they need to renew their breeding stock, they register the pups they plan to keep from a litter, and use, on an open registration.
To get around all the AKC frequent breeder limits, and not be over the number of litters per year, that would trigger a site visit, they also have dogs that are registered with other "paper" registries. Basically, online registration websites, that look official. So the unsuspecting new puppy owner, thinks their new pup is "registered".

 

[Smudge]

I will try to explain, and hopefully it will make sense. Puppy Mills and BYB, have open registrations on their breeding stock. The puppies they sell to the public, are on a limited registration. If they need to renew their breeding stock, they register the pups they plan to keep from a litter, and use, on a limited registration.
To get around all the AKC frequent breeder limits, and not be over the number of litters per year, that would trigger a site visit, they also have dogs that are registered with other "paper" registries. Basically, online registration websites, that look official. So the unsuspecting new puppy owner, thinks their new pup is "registered".

I guess what I was trying to ask is where are they starting from? Like if Joe Dog is going to open a puppy mill or be a byb for the first time where is he getting the open registration dogs?

To have an open registration dog to begin with somewhere down the line (maybe waaaaay down the line?) doesn't there have to be a CH somewhere in the pedigree? Because wouldn't the AKC only want to allow open registration on dogs that fit the standard?

Or do I just not get it?

 

[Lightplum]

Basically the akc will allow any "Pure Breed" dog to be registered...It does not matter if they are CH or not. Alot of the puppy millers and BYB if you notice only have one CH wayyy back in the line. How they get started is they buy a dog from either another BYB or puppy mill that is sold without limited registration and then they can do what they want with the dog and its still allowed AKC registration.
Also not sure about this but I do have somewhat of a sneaky suspicion that alot of these puppy millers tend to fabricate some of there pedigrees or atleast part of them to make them look better. Im sure they have devised a way to find a loophole in the system since they tend to be less than ethical to begin with...

 

[Narmowen]

I guess what I was trying to ask is where are they starting from? Like if Joe Dog is going to open a puppy mill or be a byb for the first time where is he getting the open registration dogs?

To have an open registration dog to begin with somewhere down the line (maybe waaaaay down the line?) doesn't there have to be a CH somewhere in the pedigree? Because wouldn't the AKC only want to allow open registration on dogs that fit the standard?

Or do I just not get it?

Breeding starts with a dog with ovaries or testicles. Papers don't matter (to the dogs, or to people creating a new breed). He's getting the open registration either from other BYB, puppy millers, or people he can scam into selling him a dog with OR. Years ago, when we were selling puppies, we had a fairly well know puppy miller continually try to purchase several of our female puppies. On open.

No, there doesn't have to be a CH down the line, or anywhere in the pedigree. You have to remember, that it's not just confo champions that people want to reproduce. People are breeding herding dogs, obedience, tracking etc. And not all of them are going to fit the AKC standard. If a dog has an awesome herding drive, but fits better into the old style (like the beginning Shelties) of confo (which wouldn't do squat in the ring today), the person is likely to breed it just to keep that herding instinct (if that's what their program is about).

Keep in mind that standards do change. The acceptable colors have changed. How the dogs look have changed. (For a drastic look, look at the GSD.)

 

[Smudge]

Keep in mind that standards do change. The acceptable colors have changed. How the dogs look have changed. (For a drastic look, look at the GSD.)

I've seen the picture of the GSD. It looks terrible. I don't understand how they can even walk.

 

[danisgoat]

I guess what I was trying to ask is where are they starting from? Like if Joe Dog is going to open a puppy mill or be a byb for the first time where is he getting the open registration dogs?

To have an open registration dog to begin with somewhere down the line (maybe waaaaay down the line?) doesn't there have to be a CH somewhere in the pedigree? Because wouldn't the AKC only want to allow open registration on dogs that fit the standard?

Or do I just not get it?

A lot of dogs are sold with just AKC papers...not limitation on the registration. AKC papers only provide certainty to the ancestors of the puppies....not that those puppies will be exact to the breed standards. Limited registration is mostly just for the breeders who only want their kennel name associated with dogs that will produce puppies within the breed standards. They will limit the registration on "pet quality" puppies.

It is easy to get a dog with an open registration. If you purchase a dog from a breeder that is not concerned if you breed the dog, then they will not limit the registration.

 

[BarbV]

Danisgoat and Lightplum pretty much sum it up!

It's unfortunate, but a registered pup does not necessarily mean a pup bred to standard (which isn't always so good anyway, as we are finding out with the GSD's).

To protect yourself as a buyer, you want to see the Dam and Sire - preferably on site. You want a geneology so that you can research the line.

I'm not saying that all BYB are bad, but they are not necessarily out for the same things.