Calliesmom
Moderator
lost coat color
- Thread starter Bejilia
- Start date
In the 80s in CA, our neighbors came home with a sheltie puppy. They were a bit disappointed - they had been on the wait list, and the breeder was very disappointed with their pup - oversized and a color that wasn't wanted. Now, I know it sounds nutty, but I am pretty sure that sheltie was black and tan. I always assumed that was a normal sheltie color, until we got our own a few years ago, and I didn't see it listed in any of the books.
She was mostly black, with tan eyebrows and muzzle - sort of like a tri but with black replacing the white. I thought maybe I had remembered her incorrectly, but I checked with my mom and my sisters, and the sheltie had no white on her that they remember either. We petsit her often, so we knew her pretty well - she was our first exposure to the breed. (She was a love, but a walking tangled ball of hair.)
So, this post is interesting - I would guess she would have been registered, since our neighbors had to be on a waitlist and her breeder at least knew about the correct sizes and colors, but who knows, and maybe she wasn't registered at all, or registered as a tri? Or, of course, maybe she wasn't fully purebred at all...
She was mostly black, with tan eyebrows and muzzle - sort of like a tri but with black replacing the white. I thought maybe I had remembered her incorrectly, but I checked with my mom and my sisters, and the sheltie had no white on her that they remember either. We petsit her often, so we knew her pretty well - she was our first exposure to the breed. (She was a love, but a walking tangled ball of hair.)
So, this post is interesting - I would guess she would have been registered, since our neighbors had to be on a waitlist and her breeder at least knew about the correct sizes and colors, but who knows, and maybe she wasn't registered at all, or registered as a tri? Or, of course, maybe she wasn't fully purebred at all...
I really thank you, Seashel! 
and Petitina: can you find out some more about this Sheltie or is it impossible? but in every case: Thank you for telling the story!
Perhaps there are more people, who know something, but doesn't know, that they do.
Oh and could sable as an own color (it isn't registered here, too...) be an old form of the today wrong color "brindle"? who knows?
and Petitina: can you find out some more about this Sheltie or is it impossible? but in every case: Thank you for telling the story!
Perhaps there are more people, who know something, but doesn't know, that they do.
Oh and could sable as an own color (it isn't registered here, too...) be an old form of the today wrong color "brindle"? who knows?
I'm working on this one some more, certainly I have now know of solid black shelties being produced in recent times and also some tris with virtually no white on them.
From what I've learned so far, shelties without white probably now don't exist in North American lines, so your only chance of even getting close is with European breeding.
Interestingly, the earliest shelties were usually quite plain and the black colours were the most popular.
http://www.portmazathe.nl/ped/statichtml/earliest.html
Tango of Houghton Hill at the bottom of the page was a black and tan and although no colour is stated here for Fipinella of Mountford, she appears to be a very plain sable.
As far as the genetics are concerned, I think that the vast majority now will carry the mutation which causes white markings with various modifiers. For a solid black to be produced,I think I'm correct in saying both parents must carry the recessive gene for black and presumably at least one will be carry the gene for no white patterning in the coat.
This is another useful site for genetics info:
http://homepage.usask.ca/~schmutz/SheltieColor.html
From what I've learned so far, shelties without white probably now don't exist in North American lines, so your only chance of even getting close is with European breeding.
Interestingly, the earliest shelties were usually quite plain and the black colours were the most popular.
http://www.portmazathe.nl/ped/statichtml/earliest.html
Tango of Houghton Hill at the bottom of the page was a black and tan and although no colour is stated here for Fipinella of Mountford, she appears to be a very plain sable.
As far as the genetics are concerned, I think that the vast majority now will carry the mutation which causes white markings with various modifiers. For a solid black to be produced,I think I'm correct in saying both parents must carry the recessive gene for black and presumably at least one will be carry the gene for no white patterning in the coat.
This is another useful site for genetics info:
http://homepage.usask.ca/~schmutz/SheltieColor.html
mgarnett06
Forums Regular
While browsing through Puppyfind.com, I came across a Sheltie puppy that was almost all Sable with a dark tail and no white collar. The breeder was located in Athens, AL.. Intriguing.
)...ClantyreSheltie
Forums Sage
Oh and could sable as an own color (it isn't registered here, too...) be an old form of the today wrong color "brindle"? who knows?
I don't think so. Sable is an Agouti variation (the only color gene that varies in our breed), brindle is its own gene, and is dominant. You don't get a "surprise" brindle.
The theory/rumour behined the firm banning of brindle is the suspected crossing of a brindle Scottish terrier with the very early shelties. The ban was to eliminate any element from the cross being perpetuated. Supposedly.
I have seen a picture of a brindle shelte bred in the US many years ago - annoyingly I can't find the link at the moment. It is most definitly a brindle as opposed to an oddly coloured sable. As ClantyreSheltie has said, it's a dominant colur so ought not to be passed on 'hidden'.
I have seen a picture of a brindle shelte bred in the US many years ago - annoyingly I can't find the link at the moment. It is most definitly a brindle as opposed to an oddly coloured sable. As ClantyreSheltie has said, it's a dominant colur so ought not to be passed on 'hidden'.
corbinam
Moderator