$300 fine.That makes the whole thing a joke! We are talking about businesses - that's just a tax write off or an extra litter.
Extra litter?
Smudge was a $250. Say there were five puppies in a litter at $250 a pop and that's $1250.
Missouri Passes New Puppy Mill Law
- Thread starter take4roll10
- Start date
Extra litter?
Smudge was a $250. Say there were five puppies in a litter at $250 a pop and that's $1250.
Emmasmom
Forums Sage
It is okay for politicians to pass laws and be seen to be doing something. However, it is the enforcement of these laws that falls through. The fines are nothing when you consider what a puppy mill brings in. If there is not money or people for enforcement, the laws are seen as a joke and those should be caught and fined just thumb their noses at the law and the ones who pay are the dogs and puppies from the mills and those owners who purchase them and face the unexpected medical expenses and even loss of their beloved pet.
Until a politician's family has been one who has had a puppy from a puppy mill, the laws will not be strong enough to stop the mills.
Until a politician's family has been one who has had a puppy from a puppy mill, the laws will not be strong enough to stop the mills.
I'm from Missouri
Well, here I go. As everyone can see, I'm from Missouri...How about a little break here. I helped campaigned for this law for over two years. None of you live in this state and most don't even live close. None of you realize how hard we worked to just get our toe in the door. Not only the breeders who run the puppy mills fought us, but the farmers fought us for fear it would take away many of their animals and even the good breeders fought us saying that if this passed it would hurt their business. Most of the people who live in the areas where the mills are were fighting against us. It was the people in the big cities who got this law passed. People who didn't even know what a puppy mill was until we went out and showed them and explained to them. Sure it's a weak law, sure there's holes in it...but we had to start somewhere. And someone posted that some of these towns don't even have police departments or those departments are only worried about giving tickets....well, the police who on their patrols of the area happen to see something are supposed to report it to the humane society, the apa, or the aspca. These are the organizations who are suppose to patrol and then get warrents. Before you put down what we have accomplished, read up on it and see how hard we fought to just get this little bit of movement. No, it's not going to stop everything, but it's a start. It's always amazing to me how people can put things down and degrade efforts of people who have worked so hard when, they know nothing about how hard we pulled to get this vote, the hours we gave up, the money we put into this, the education, and many of these people were handicapped people, like I was at the time. How many of you would have gotten out on the street corners in the dead of winter in a wheelchair and passed out pamplets????
Well, here I go. As everyone can see, I'm from Missouri...How about a little break here. I helped campaigned for this law for over two years. None of you live in this state and most don't even live close. None of you realize how hard we worked to just get our toe in the door. Not only the breeders who run the puppy mills fought us, but the farmers fought us for fear it would take away many of their animals and even the good breeders fought us saying that if this passed it would hurt their business. Most of the people who live in the areas where the mills are were fighting against us. It was the people in the big cities who got this law passed. People who didn't even know what a puppy mill was until we went out and showed them and explained to them. Sure it's a weak law, sure there's holes in it...but we had to start somewhere. And someone posted that some of these towns don't even have police departments or those departments are only worried about giving tickets....well, the police who on their patrols of the area happen to see something are supposed to report it to the humane society, the apa, or the aspca. These are the organizations who are suppose to patrol and then get warrents. Before you put down what we have accomplished, read up on it and see how hard we fought to just get this little bit of movement. No, it's not going to stop everything, but it's a start. It's always amazing to me how people can put things down and degrade efforts of people who have worked so hard when, they know nothing about how hard we pulled to get this vote, the hours we gave up, the money we put into this, the education, and many of these people were handicapped people, like I was at the time. How many of you would have gotten out on the street corners in the dead of winter in a wheelchair and passed out pamplets????
Sharon7
Moderator
David, I thank you for enlightening us. My attitude is, like yours, you gotta start somewhere. The wheels of justice turn pretty slowly and God knows legislation of any kind takes for ever, even if it seems a no-brainer.
I applaud the fact that Missourians stepped up and addressed this issue. Sometimes it takes baby steps to accomplish the end goal. Education and exposure to the issues is key for people to understand what is happening in puppy mills.
THANK YOU for all you did to get this law passed. I will keep my fingers crossed that it puts a dent in all the misery.
We had a fight here over a spay/neuter bill that was fairly mild so I know how mad folks can get if they think their rights will get curtailed.
Sharon
I applaud the fact that Missourians stepped up and addressed this issue. Sometimes it takes baby steps to accomplish the end goal. Education and exposure to the issues is key for people to understand what is happening in puppy mills.
THANK YOU for all you did to get this law passed. I will keep my fingers crossed that it puts a dent in all the misery.
We had a fight here over a spay/neuter bill that was fairly mild so I know how mad folks can get if they think their rights will get curtailed.
Sharon
Emmasmom
Forums Sage
I agree that we all appreciate the effort that you, David, and others have made to have this law enacted. We in no way want to detract from your efforts. In Ontario, it was tried for years to bring in a tougher law regarding vicious dogs and those who are aggressive. Unfortunately, it took a long time and many people suffered from dog bites and still do.
What I see with the puppy mill law is that it is a start. There still needs to be toughening of the consequences these people face. I see the same thing in our health care field in Ontario. Hospitals are closed, beds are closed, services are removed, hospitals are built where they are not readily accessible to ALL people. It is a sad fact of life that unless a politician's family or someone who is high up in a hospital hierachry's family is hurt, nothing changes. That is my fear with your law regarding puppy mills. They will still operate because they operate outside the law. People will not change how they do business unless it hits them in the pocketbook.
My comments are not made to anger you. They are made because I have worked with the public for over 30 years and I know how some of the public thinks. I am sure that you and the others who worked to bring this law in will continue to do your good work and work towards strengthening the consequences and penalities.
What I see with the puppy mill law is that it is a start. There still needs to be toughening of the consequences these people face. I see the same thing in our health care field in Ontario. Hospitals are closed, beds are closed, services are removed, hospitals are built where they are not readily accessible to ALL people. It is a sad fact of life that unless a politician's family or someone who is high up in a hospital hierachry's family is hurt, nothing changes. That is my fear with your law regarding puppy mills. They will still operate because they operate outside the law. People will not change how they do business unless it hits them in the pocketbook.
My comments are not made to anger you. They are made because I have worked with the public for over 30 years and I know how some of the public thinks. I am sure that you and the others who worked to bring this law in will continue to do your good work and work towards strengthening the consequences and penalities.
Ann
Moderator
Being the dog people that we are, we would all like to see very tough laws enacted that would put puppy mills out of business for good. If we're realistic though, we have to accept that it's going to take baby steps, as David said.
Bottom line, this is a huge accomplishment for Missouri. So huge that it's gotten attention here in Connecticut, where I've gotten emails and "did you hear" messages from many people I know who are involved in rescue work.
Kudos to you, David, and everyone who took the time to put in the effort and get this done! Anyone who thinks it isn't enough may be right, but let's face it folks, we can't even get this much nationally.
Bottom line, this is a huge accomplishment for Missouri. So huge that it's gotten attention here in Connecticut, where I've gotten emails and "did you hear" messages from many people I know who are involved in rescue work.
Kudos to you, David, and everyone who took the time to put in the effort and get this done! Anyone who thinks it isn't enough may be right, but let's face it folks, we can't even get this much nationally.
hmmm its defiantly a fine line there, while I whole heartily agree puppy mills are BAD, theres the other side of the line, and that is the side thats backing the bill, H$U$ and the ASPCA, they are a very dangerous group to stand with I wonder what other provisions they put in there, why did the bigger breeders"Show Breeders" want to fight it? What was their reasoning since im not familiar with the bill?
Its a nice looking bill in theory but yes the puppy mill people are very ruthless and know and find every loophole available in the law, they are lets say less than ethical...Sadly I see it affecting the "Show" breeders more than the mills since they tend to operate above the law....JMO
Its a nice looking bill in theory but yes the puppy mill people are very ruthless and know and find every loophole available in the law, they are lets say less than ethical...Sadly I see it affecting the "Show" breeders more than the mills since they tend to operate above the law....JMO
ClantyreSheltie
Forums Sage
Please don't take it personally. Not everyone will agree with you, and that's OK.
This is the same basic law that HSUS and crew have attempted to pass in many states. It varies slightly, but is fundamentally the same. They tried to get it through the legislature here in Maryland, and it didn't make it out of committee.
I object to any law (including this one) that distinguishes between intact and altered animals. Why does the status of my dogs uterus have any bearing on the type of care they should receive. I made the same argument when they tried to pass this in Maryland. A dog is a dog. All dogs should have the basic care described in this law, right?
Based on this law, it is acceptable to keep as many altered dogs as you want, in whatever conditions you want. Oh, wait? There are existing laws that cover those dogs? Why don't those existing laws cover the "puppy mills?" I bet they do. So then it all comes back to enforcement (or lack thereof).
If we enforce the existing laws, and do it in legal ways (like having actual probable cause and good warrants, not like HSUS does them), then I bet half the problems will be solved. Virginia passed a similar set of laws based on the busting of a "puppy mill" in their state. Think about that. They successfully convicted someone on cruelty charges and shut down the operation, using existing laws, but then used it as an excuse to pass more restrictive laws. You would think they would use that as a great example of what good enforcement can do, then try to get more funding.
This is the same basic law that HSUS and crew have attempted to pass in many states. It varies slightly, but is fundamentally the same. They tried to get it through the legislature here in Maryland, and it didn't make it out of committee.
I object to any law (including this one) that distinguishes between intact and altered animals. Why does the status of my dogs uterus have any bearing on the type of care they should receive. I made the same argument when they tried to pass this in Maryland. A dog is a dog. All dogs should have the basic care described in this law, right?
Based on this law, it is acceptable to keep as many altered dogs as you want, in whatever conditions you want. Oh, wait? There are existing laws that cover those dogs? Why don't those existing laws cover the "puppy mills?" I bet they do. So then it all comes back to enforcement (or lack thereof).
If we enforce the existing laws, and do it in legal ways (like having actual probable cause and good warrants, not like HSUS does them), then I bet half the problems will be solved. Virginia passed a similar set of laws based on the busting of a "puppy mill" in their state. Think about that. They successfully convicted someone on cruelty charges and shut down the operation, using existing laws, but then used it as an excuse to pass more restrictive laws. You would think they would use that as a great example of what good enforcement can do, then try to get more funding.
I don't think anyone is putting down what you've accomplished at all. I'm not quite understanding why there's anger. Perhaps you're misunderstanding everyone's intentions. After personally fostering a female that was rescued from a Lancaster puppy mill that was supposed to be euthanized, I can say that I'd like to see things happen to the puppy mill breeders that's far worse than any fine any government could impose. I don't see anything wrong with saying that we hope that we could fine these people and punish them far more in time and put them all out of business. It's not a dig on the people who pushed for the bill, if anything it has to do with how little our government cares about the welfare of our animals. We're all on the same side here I assure you 
We applaud all of your efforts and hope that some day we can do away with puppy mills altogether.
We applaud all of your efforts and hope that some day we can do away with puppy mills altogether.