VallejoSheltie
Forums Enthusiast
Dr. Mac, would you consider posting a link for us to your presentation?
My puppy has fleas!! Using Frontline Plus!
- Thread starter Jinee1
- Start date
The Quahog
Forums Enthusiast
I'll see how it turns out, and the feedback, and get back to you.
Thanks for the interest.
Its amazing to think that we are familiar with all 15 of those products, and have prescribed about 13 of them at various times. - Dr. Mac
The Quahog
Forums Enthusiast
Ok - here ya go. After a long weekend pounding away at the keyboard - Our flea lecture .
As always, be aware that this is written for our clients so they will know what we are thinking and why we make the recommendations we do. It is not a technical monograph, which is one reason why we don't get into comparing, or even naming, active ingredients. Others opinions on relative effectiveness etc. may vary - these are based on our experience.
Part 1 - Theory
On Fleas and Ticks
With the (over)abundance of flea and tick products available these days, and new ones seemingly coming out every month, it can be challenging to provide guidance for our clients as to the best choices for their individual situations.
So we shall attempt here to explain the difference between each of the more useful products available, and why we make the recommendations which we choose.
First, some overall observations about fleas and flea control.
1) Fleas do not infest animals. Fleas infest environments.
If your dog goes walking in the park in August and a flea jumps on her and bites her that is not a problem. If the flea is carried home, feeds on your dog, then starts to lay eggs in your house, then that is a problem.
Similarly, if your dog is in a back yard with fleas, and you bring the dog in and give him a wonderful bath and 50 fleas fall off dead, then you rinse off the shampoo and put the dog back in the infested yard, you have accomplished very little. In an hour he will have fleas again.
The infested environment can be outside, or your house, or parts thereof (cellar, garage, laundry room).
2) Fleas cause two different problems- Flea bite dermatitis, and Flea allergy dermatitis.
Flea bite dermatitis is obvious - your dog has fleas, they are biting her, she is itching and scratching, you see fleas running around on her. Pretty simple.
However many dogs have an allergy to flea saliva, so that when a single flea bites them they break out in a large, nasty, hive like rash. These dogs can have four or five flea bites a week, and be tearing themselves up as if they had a major infestation. In these cases the owners often refuse to believe that fleas are a problem, because they have not seen any fleas on the animal. Remember our dog walking in the park in August, and we said that one flea bite is not a big problem? If the dog is severely allergic, then actually that IS a big problem.
3) Flea control products fall into three main categories - Surface acting insecticides, Systemic (absorbed into the body) insecticides, and IGRs, or Insect growth regulators which do not kill the fleas, but rather sterilize them so their eggs aren't fertile. Which works best for your pet depends on circumstances.
In addition, some are long acting and continue to kill fleas for a month. Others, like the shampoos and some tablets, kill the fleas very nicely but have no residual effect.
So let us put this all together for our dog who has just gone to the park, or has picked up fleas in the backyard. Surface acting insecticides kill the fleas before they bite. Systemic insecticides let them bite, but then they die before they lay eggs, which is fine unless the dog is allergic. IGRs let the flea bite, and don't kill the flea, but its eggs are not fertile so the house does not become infested. Again, ok if the dog is not allergic, and if you don't mind that when he is in the back yard fleas will be running around fearlessly through his hair.
So, you might think, 'Aren't 'topical' (surface acting) insecticides the way to go?' In theory yes, if you don't mind your pet smelling like flea spray, being somewhat toxic especially to cats and infant/toddlers, and having to reapply the medication when the dog swims or gets a bath.
So, as you can see, there are many considerations, and no single 'best' answer.
As always, be aware that this is written for our clients so they will know what we are thinking and why we make the recommendations we do. It is not a technical monograph, which is one reason why we don't get into comparing, or even naming, active ingredients. Others opinions on relative effectiveness etc. may vary - these are based on our experience.
Part 1 - Theory
On Fleas and Ticks
With the (over)abundance of flea and tick products available these days, and new ones seemingly coming out every month, it can be challenging to provide guidance for our clients as to the best choices for their individual situations.
So we shall attempt here to explain the difference between each of the more useful products available, and why we make the recommendations which we choose.
First, some overall observations about fleas and flea control.
1) Fleas do not infest animals. Fleas infest environments.
If your dog goes walking in the park in August and a flea jumps on her and bites her that is not a problem. If the flea is carried home, feeds on your dog, then starts to lay eggs in your house, then that is a problem.
Similarly, if your dog is in a back yard with fleas, and you bring the dog in and give him a wonderful bath and 50 fleas fall off dead, then you rinse off the shampoo and put the dog back in the infested yard, you have accomplished very little. In an hour he will have fleas again.
The infested environment can be outside, or your house, or parts thereof (cellar, garage, laundry room).
2) Fleas cause two different problems- Flea bite dermatitis, and Flea allergy dermatitis.
Flea bite dermatitis is obvious - your dog has fleas, they are biting her, she is itching and scratching, you see fleas running around on her. Pretty simple.
However many dogs have an allergy to flea saliva, so that when a single flea bites them they break out in a large, nasty, hive like rash. These dogs can have four or five flea bites a week, and be tearing themselves up as if they had a major infestation. In these cases the owners often refuse to believe that fleas are a problem, because they have not seen any fleas on the animal. Remember our dog walking in the park in August, and we said that one flea bite is not a big problem? If the dog is severely allergic, then actually that IS a big problem.
3) Flea control products fall into three main categories - Surface acting insecticides, Systemic (absorbed into the body) insecticides, and IGRs, or Insect growth regulators which do not kill the fleas, but rather sterilize them so their eggs aren't fertile. Which works best for your pet depends on circumstances.
In addition, some are long acting and continue to kill fleas for a month. Others, like the shampoos and some tablets, kill the fleas very nicely but have no residual effect.
So let us put this all together for our dog who has just gone to the park, or has picked up fleas in the backyard. Surface acting insecticides kill the fleas before they bite. Systemic insecticides let them bite, but then they die before they lay eggs, which is fine unless the dog is allergic. IGRs let the flea bite, and don't kill the flea, but its eggs are not fertile so the house does not become infested. Again, ok if the dog is not allergic, and if you don't mind that when he is in the back yard fleas will be running around fearlessly through his hair.
So, you might think, 'Aren't 'topical' (surface acting) insecticides the way to go?' In theory yes, if you don't mind your pet smelling like flea spray, being somewhat toxic especially to cats and infant/toddlers, and having to reapply the medication when the dog swims or gets a bath.
So, as you can see, there are many considerations, and no single 'best' answer.
The Quahog
Forums Enthusiast
Part 2 - Theory in Practice
With all that behind us, let us examine our available choices.
A) Systemic insecticides
We shall begin with the Systemic, that is 'whole body' insecticides, as these are currently the standard against which others are measured.
These include Frontline,Advantage, Revolution, Assurity and Comfortis.
1) Frontline- Currently the standard. Provides very good flea prevention for at least a month. Washable, reasonably useful against ticks.
2) Advantage- Similar to Frontline. Has never been as popular. A reasonable alternative.
3) Revolution - Combines flea protection with heartworm prevention, throws in ear mite protection, kills some other parasites as well. A good drug, the main problem being that 'flea season' and 'heartworm season' do not coincide, so you are paying for something you don't need for part of the year. if you use year round heartworm prevention, plus year round flea prevention, then this is a good choice.
4) Comfortis- Unlike the others, a tablet instead of a topical application. A relatively new drug that has been having excellent results, especially in very difficult flea areas like Florida. May well turn out to be the 'next big thing'. Downsides - no effect at all on ticks, causes more stomach upset than we would like.
5) Assurity - The same medication as Comfortis, but for cats, and a topical. Again a new drug, there have been problems with skin irritation and hair loss where it has been applied (this can be significant), but time will tell.
6) Capstar - This one is different. It does an amazing job of killing every flea on the dog and starting with a 'clean slate', but has no residual effect. It is a good place to start with a badly infested dog, or, for example, one who has picked up fleas from a stay at the Animal Shelter and is returning to a flea free environment, but in general must be used along with a residual acting drug, for reasons discussed when we started. However it really works for what it does, and a good and useful drug for many situations.
B) IGRs -
Generally, as we shall see , these are combined with other medications which actually kill the fleas.
The only two common 'stand alone' IGRs are Program and Sentinel.
7) Program - The first of the 'new wave' of flea products which appeared about 20 years ago and changed the face of flea control. Still around, still a good drug, but probably superseded by better ones.
8) Sentinel - Program plus a heartworm preventative, which , like Revolution , brings up the problem that some times of the year you need one but not the other.
C) Topicals -
This would include sprays, powders, shampoos, dips, etc. Also included are topical 'pyrethrins', such as the ones from Pet Stores with names like 'X__X -Spot' . (I don't want to name names.) Most of the spot pyrethrins seem to be both somewhat toxic and not particularly effective. Old fashioned pyrethrin flea spray, (or 'permethrin' - long acting pyrethrin), however , should not be discounted. They can be VERY useful on short haired dogs, especially those with flea allergy. This group would also include collars, but as we firmly believe they are of little use for fleas we shall discuss collars in the tick section, where they are important.
9) Vectra - A 'second generation' pyrethroid which apparently gives better coverage and can be more effective. As topicals kill the fleas before they bite, this can be a good choice, and we often use it, for flea allergic dogs.
D) Combination medications-
So much for the easy part. In looking for the next stage in the evolution of flea control beyond the Program/Frontline/Advantage era, several companies are marketing drugs combining ingredients from the different classes listed above to increase effectiveness.
10) Frontline Plus combines the systemic Frontline with an IGR, so that if any fleas survive to feed they will be sterile anyway.
11) Advantix combines the systemic Advantage with a permethrin topical. Not to be confused with Advantage Multi, which contains heartworm preventative.
12) Parastar Plus combines the ingredient of Frontline with a second generation pyrethrin type topical. It is a new product, but like Vectra the topical may be of more value than the standard permethrin/pyrethrin.
13) Certifect combines the ingredients of Frontline Plus with amitraz- the best of the tick preventative medications. We shall hear more of it in the tick discussion.
14) Trifexis combines Comfortis with heartworm prevention.
Putting it all together-
So 14 different drugs, all useful in a given context. As you can see, this is why 'What do you recommend for fleas?' is not a question that gets a one word answer.
(Admittedly, at our hospital very few questions do.)
We generally advise that flea control and heartworm prevention be handled separately. They are needed at different times of the year, and some flea seasons are worse than others. However if you wish to be on both year round this is feasible and we can discuss options.
In our area fleas are largely an August to October phenomenon. People think of fleas as a heat of the summer problem, but it actually develops in late summer and peaks in early fall. Every July we hear ' This has been the best summer for fleas ever!' Every November we hear, ' The fleas have never been this bad!'.
Major flea problems seem to show up on August tenth like clockwork, but of course if temperature and humidity are optimal they can occur much earlier.
Our current standard recommendation for flea prevention in the uninfested dog would be one of the fipronil, (this is the active ingredient of Frontline we have referred to so often), products, with application being started in mid-June at the latest. Frontline itself is fine, though we are tending toward Parastar, as it is no more expensive and useful for flea allergic dogs. Parastar is what I am using on my dog. Comfortis is a very good alternative.
For severe infestations with an infested house, for multiple pet households especially with cats involved, for tick control and for other individual situations... well, that is why we have fourteen products. We will be happy to try and sort out what is best for your particular situation - hopefully this guide will give you some idea of the available choices.
Coming soon - Ticks!
With all that behind us, let us examine our available choices.
A) Systemic insecticides
We shall begin with the Systemic, that is 'whole body' insecticides, as these are currently the standard against which others are measured.
These include Frontline,Advantage, Revolution, Assurity and Comfortis.
1) Frontline- Currently the standard. Provides very good flea prevention for at least a month. Washable, reasonably useful against ticks.
2) Advantage- Similar to Frontline. Has never been as popular. A reasonable alternative.
3) Revolution - Combines flea protection with heartworm prevention, throws in ear mite protection, kills some other parasites as well. A good drug, the main problem being that 'flea season' and 'heartworm season' do not coincide, so you are paying for something you don't need for part of the year. if you use year round heartworm prevention, plus year round flea prevention, then this is a good choice.
4) Comfortis- Unlike the others, a tablet instead of a topical application. A relatively new drug that has been having excellent results, especially in very difficult flea areas like Florida. May well turn out to be the 'next big thing'. Downsides - no effect at all on ticks, causes more stomach upset than we would like.
5) Assurity - The same medication as Comfortis, but for cats, and a topical. Again a new drug, there have been problems with skin irritation and hair loss where it has been applied (this can be significant), but time will tell.
6) Capstar - This one is different. It does an amazing job of killing every flea on the dog and starting with a 'clean slate', but has no residual effect. It is a good place to start with a badly infested dog, or, for example, one who has picked up fleas from a stay at the Animal Shelter and is returning to a flea free environment, but in general must be used along with a residual acting drug, for reasons discussed when we started. However it really works for what it does, and a good and useful drug for many situations.
B) IGRs -
Generally, as we shall see , these are combined with other medications which actually kill the fleas.
The only two common 'stand alone' IGRs are Program and Sentinel.
7) Program - The first of the 'new wave' of flea products which appeared about 20 years ago and changed the face of flea control. Still around, still a good drug, but probably superseded by better ones.
8) Sentinel - Program plus a heartworm preventative, which , like Revolution , brings up the problem that some times of the year you need one but not the other.
C) Topicals -
This would include sprays, powders, shampoos, dips, etc. Also included are topical 'pyrethrins', such as the ones from Pet Stores with names like 'X__X -Spot' . (I don't want to name names.) Most of the spot pyrethrins seem to be both somewhat toxic and not particularly effective. Old fashioned pyrethrin flea spray, (or 'permethrin' - long acting pyrethrin), however , should not be discounted. They can be VERY useful on short haired dogs, especially those with flea allergy. This group would also include collars, but as we firmly believe they are of little use for fleas we shall discuss collars in the tick section, where they are important.
9) Vectra - A 'second generation' pyrethroid which apparently gives better coverage and can be more effective. As topicals kill the fleas before they bite, this can be a good choice, and we often use it, for flea allergic dogs.
D) Combination medications-
So much for the easy part. In looking for the next stage in the evolution of flea control beyond the Program/Frontline/Advantage era, several companies are marketing drugs combining ingredients from the different classes listed above to increase effectiveness.
10) Frontline Plus combines the systemic Frontline with an IGR, so that if any fleas survive to feed they will be sterile anyway.
11) Advantix combines the systemic Advantage with a permethrin topical. Not to be confused with Advantage Multi, which contains heartworm preventative.
12) Parastar Plus combines the ingredient of Frontline with a second generation pyrethrin type topical. It is a new product, but like Vectra the topical may be of more value than the standard permethrin/pyrethrin.
13) Certifect combines the ingredients of Frontline Plus with amitraz- the best of the tick preventative medications. We shall hear more of it in the tick discussion.
14) Trifexis combines Comfortis with heartworm prevention.
Putting it all together-
So 14 different drugs, all useful in a given context. As you can see, this is why 'What do you recommend for fleas?' is not a question that gets a one word answer.
(Admittedly, at our hospital very few questions do.)
We generally advise that flea control and heartworm prevention be handled separately. They are needed at different times of the year, and some flea seasons are worse than others. However if you wish to be on both year round this is feasible and we can discuss options.
In our area fleas are largely an August to October phenomenon. People think of fleas as a heat of the summer problem, but it actually develops in late summer and peaks in early fall. Every July we hear ' This has been the best summer for fleas ever!' Every November we hear, ' The fleas have never been this bad!'.
Major flea problems seem to show up on August tenth like clockwork, but of course if temperature and humidity are optimal they can occur much earlier.
Our current standard recommendation for flea prevention in the uninfested dog would be one of the fipronil, (this is the active ingredient of Frontline we have referred to so often), products, with application being started in mid-June at the latest. Frontline itself is fine, though we are tending toward Parastar, as it is no more expensive and useful for flea allergic dogs. Parastar is what I am using on my dog. Comfortis is a very good alternative.
For severe infestations with an infested house, for multiple pet households especially with cats involved, for tick control and for other individual situations... well, that is why we have fourteen products. We will be happy to try and sort out what is best for your particular situation - hopefully this guide will give you some idea of the available choices.
Coming soon - Ticks!
famous seamus
Forums Enthusiast
Fleas
Thank you Dr. Mac, for the information and your time providing it all to this forum.
Kate
Thank you Dr. Mac, for the information and your time providing it all to this forum.
Kate
Ann
Moderator
Thank you so much, Dr. Mac. What a wonderful and understandable breakdown of the options available. Please please do share your advice for tick repellents when you can, especially for those of us here in tick country!
The Quahog
Forums Enthusiast
Hullo this is Skye here.
Thank you for the nice things you said about what my Daddy wrote.
It was WAY too long and boring for me to read, but I did see a part where he said 'Parastar Plus is what I use on my own dog.'
Ya know, that's kinda funny because I don't remember when he ever akshually putted anything like that on me.
I remember a while ago Mommy talked to him louder and louder every day and he brought some stuff home. Maybe he putted it on me when I was asleep.
Yeah, that must be it.
Funny I never smelled anything though....
Thank you for the nice things you said about what my Daddy wrote.
It was WAY too long and boring for me to read, but I did see a part where he said 'Parastar Plus is what I use on my own dog.'
Ya know, that's kinda funny because I don't remember when he ever akshually putted anything like that on me.
I remember a while ago Mommy talked to him louder and louder every day and he brought some stuff home. Maybe he putted it on me when I was asleep.
Yeah, that must be it.
Funny I never smelled anything though....
has anyone had an adverse reaction to frontline plus or evolution
have any of these preventatives like frontline or evolution caused an adverse reaction in your sheltie. I'm scared to death of putting this chemical on my little girl. Help me out.
have any of these preventatives like frontline or evolution caused an adverse reaction in your sheltie. I'm scared to death of putting this chemical on my little girl. Help me out.
ClantyreSheltie
Forums Sage
I had a dog have a mild reaction to Advantix. She was lethargic, and went off her food for a day (in my house that's a serious issue, I don't deal in picky eating dogs).
My landlords dog had a weird skin/coat change at the application site from Frontline. The undercoat is gone, and the hair is kind of wire-haired now. For a year after his last topical, the skin in that area also leaked orange into the hair. It had to be bathed every few weeks.
This is again a risk matrix thing. I've had fleas in the house. It sucks. No question about that. But I also don't like how we chose to handle fleas, in general. I'm not a fan of overusing products, which I think we are. So in my risk matrix, I choose to only use topicals on the one dog who has a decently bad reaction to fleas. For him, the flea reaction is worse than any reaction to the topicals. The rest don't get anything. I am also not in the woods, and there is little variety of woodland creatures in my part of the city. Squirrels and rabbits, that's it. Your risk matrix might look different, depending on your area and activities.
My landlords dog had a weird skin/coat change at the application site from Frontline. The undercoat is gone, and the hair is kind of wire-haired now. For a year after his last topical, the skin in that area also leaked orange into the hair. It had to be bathed every few weeks.
This is again a risk matrix thing. I've had fleas in the house. It sucks. No question about that. But I also don't like how we chose to handle fleas, in general. I'm not a fan of overusing products, which I think we are. So in my risk matrix, I choose to only use topicals on the one dog who has a decently bad reaction to fleas. For him, the flea reaction is worse than any reaction to the topicals. The rest don't get anything. I am also not in the woods, and there is little variety of woodland creatures in my part of the city. Squirrels and rabbits, that's it. Your risk matrix might look different, depending on your area and activities.
marymrumfelt
Forums Enthusiast
They have in mine, but I have sensitive ones. I don't use any of them because you can't be assured it won't and the risks are great to me. I use neem oil. If you have a health food store, call and ask if they have neem oil. Use about 12 drops mixed into a bit of oil -- olive, coconut or whatever kind -- and then add that to the shampoo and mix it together. Bathe them with this, if infested, daily. Make a mixture of the ten drops or so and oil into vinegar and spray on all the things they lay on after you've washed them in hot water. I also apply diatmatacious earth food grade to our yard weekly. You can find that at most nurseries... probably not home depots but more independent ones. We also add apple cider vinegar to their water as a preventative. I have found this to be successful for over a year.
Many people use it all the time without experiencing immediate ill side-effects, but there hasn't been any studies on the long-term use of them so that's also why I use alternatives.
Best of luck!