Pedigree Dogs Exposed

Well said!!

I don't think anyone has qualms with the breeder who is out to try to produce the best litter they can. There is going to be defects that come that can't be prevented but, they must think before producing a litter they know already has problems. I don't think any quality breeder would purposely produce defective pups. No, I think it comes down to when the breed is trying to be altered to downsize the breed,as in the King Charles cavalier, who have been downsized to the extent it's causing some brain damage. Due to reduced skull size and heart deffects. I'm a sucker when it comes to furkids and I don't like seeing them hurt, as I'm certain no one here does either. I cry for them and hope this just brings the quest for the Perfect dog to the open. Most of the problems our poor furkids have are due to certain people wanting smaller noses, therefore breathing problems arise. I don't know much about all the genetics but I do know that certain things need to be left in Gods hands and not mans !!:sadsmile:
Elenbah said:
Hi All, It has been a while since I have posted, but I really feel I need to say something here....:smile2:

First of all, I am going to put on my flame suit as what I want to say may not go down too well.. I also consider myself a responsible breeder, in that I not only look at the proposed parents of the litter but also study the family tree of both parents... I endeavor to breed to the best and most suitable dogs and test for those diseases that we have testing for...

I have seen PDE some time ago and it is alarming to see such as what they have shown...BUT.. it is what they have not shown that needs to be seen also.... The many, many dedicated breeders who DO test and who DO put all their love, money and devotion into their dogs and their health and well being..The large percentage of pedigree dogs shown by breeders are living just as the pets they sell, in their homes as part of the family.

The program talks about these problems being caused by breeders breeding close relatives or incestuous breeding..... Well guess what., Humans are the only animals that have a problem with that... How do you think wild animals maintain their type.. lions, apes, elephants etc. they all have a very limited gene pool and go to great length to maintain it or else they would no longer exist... Many people buy a pure (pedigree) dog because they know the pups will look and act like the parents... not so in cross breeds... I know in Aust and I assume the rest of the world, if you walked into an Animal Shelter, Dog Pound or whatever, I bet that the large majority of dogs there would be cross breeds.....why??????

He in Aust. this morning a TV channel had a program for "Mutts" and a Vet that had 3 designer dogs with him claiming that cross breeding makes for sounder dogs. (he did not happen to mention that this dog now has the DNA from both parents and brings with them possibly new genetic defects... He had a Labrador Mix that he said was dog aggressive and that it must come from the Labrador side and a Poodle Mix who he said suffered from separation anxiety which he said came from the Poodle side.... so what will the puppies of these two dogs produce???????....... Please,... do not let this program lead you to believe that placing rapid, hard restrictions on breeding is going to be to the betterment of the dog world or you may find a world WITHOUT DOGS. For whatever we do, nature will always balance things out.... It is my belief that we have to have a certain amount of genetic defects in our gene pools (including Humans).. for no living thing is perfect...
The Powers that be are expecting Dog Breeders to eliminate things that even nature will not play with......( Flame suit well and truly wrapped around me now.!!!!!!:wink2:
Click to expand...
 
Saw part of that a while back. I should watch the rest, but anyway...
Inbreeding by those who don't know what they are doing, certainly, can be bad. Just as problems are caused by outbreeding by those who do not know what they are doing can be bad.
I doubt that inbreeding done by a reputable breeder with all the health testing and matching the two carefully will cause trouble.
 
elaine2004 said:
I don't think anyone has qualms with the breeder who is out to try to produce the best litter they can. There is going to be defects that come that can't be prevented but, they must think before producing a litter they know already has problems. I don't think any quality breeder would purposely produce defective pups. No, I think it comes down to when the breed is trying to be altered to downsize the breed,as in the King Charles cavalier, who have been downsized to the extent it's causing some brain damage. Due to reduced skull size and heart deffects. I'm a sucker when it comes to furkids and I don't like seeing them hurt, as I'm certain no one here does either. I cry for them and hope this just brings the quest for the Perfect dog to the open. Most of the problems our poor furkids have are due to certain people wanting smaller noses, therefore breathing problems arise. I don't know much about all the genetics but I do know that certain things need to be left in Gods hands and not mans !!:sadsmile:
Click to expand...

Well, I did finally watch it last night and I agree with you Elaine.

I do believe there was some sensational journalism going on here, but I agree totally with you, Elaine, that I think a review of the current standards should be undertaken. I am a supporter of "breeding to type" but only if the "type" produces a healthy and fit dog. When the standards start evolving such that German Shepherds can barely walk, and dogs can't breathe for purely esthetical reasons, I have an issue with that.

I would like to see breed standards reviews that re-examine the function of the breed.

Like you, I don't think any quality breeder would purposely breed defective pups, but when the standard ITSELF is defective, then I think that's where the problem lines.
 
More fodder for our discussion:

An independent research conducted by the RSPCA in the UK earlier this year - Pedigree Dog Breeding in the UK - A Major Welfare Concern?

A research paper done in 2007 published in the Canadian Veterinary Journal - A new direction for kennel club regulations and breed standards

Inbreeding 101? and this too. I will need to relook this last link as the numbers and equations immediately put me off!! :lol:

Short one on effects of inbreeding

And now I need to go do some actual work!
 
No flaming from here Ellanbah. At least here in Australia they are doing a balanced follow up on Catalyst the following week (altho what a shame it isn't done at the same time). I do agility with a breeder of Cavaliers and she competes with 4 of them, so definately no health problems there. It will be a real shame if it pushes people into puppy farm dogs, but they are worthwhile issues being raised.

And I agree - we just cannot expect to get rid of every genetic defect. We are trying to avoid the same big brother approach in humans after all, so why do it in dogs. In fact, if we remove all dogs with any defect from breeding we greatly reduce the gene pool and this is even worse (that's why in Aust you can still breed from shelties with minor Collie Eye - because otherwise the gene pool isn't big enough).

I have researched whether mixed or purebreeds are more sound and there is no evidence that mixed breeds are healthier, the reports do not compare size for size and like for like so the data is useless. I will point out in humans the most homogenous societies (Japan, the Nordic countries) have the longest life spans and best health. Breeding within a breed or race does not cause more genetic defects, as these countries show. It annoys me no end that some poorly informed people (including vets) don't even bother to look at the research.

PS - that RSPCA report has questionable assumptions as well, boy does anyone do quality research anymore!
 
Last edited:
*Caro said:
It will be a real shame if it pushes people into puppy farm dogs, but they are worthwhile issues being raised.

I here you! It would be a shame if the uneducated dog buyer now felt it a bad thing to avoid purebreds as a result of this documentary, and resorted to other options

And I agree - we just cannot expect to get rid of every genetic defect. We are trying to avoid the same big brother approach in humans after all, so why do it in dogs. In fact, if we remove all dogs with any defect from breeding we greatly reduce the gene pool and this is even worse (that's why in Aust you can still breed from shelties with minor Collie Eye - because otherwise the gene pool isn't big enough).

True again! What I'm against is altering the standard to breed purely for esthetics and losing the dogs original function in the first place

I have researched whether mixed or purebreeds are more sound and there is no evidence that mixed breeds are healthier, the reports do not compare size for size and like for like so the data is useless.

True again! Many of these conditions exist just as commonly as in mixed breeds.

PS - that RSPCA report has questionable assumptions as well, boy does anyone do quality research anymore!
Click to expand...

And true, one more time! It's easy to find enough material to support your position and make it appear as 100% fact. That's why I'm very cautious when see these things about being too quick to form a bias one way or the other.
 
The Sweet and Sour

This is the most necessary post, I believe we responsible animal lovers can pass along. There is a responsibility with every breeder to pass the absolute best genes possible into the new babies. It is a horrific thing for those in command of the health of new puppies (in this case) to knowingly breed animals where the outcome will break the hearts of new owners and even more, place that new puppy into a life of damned. I wish I could iterate the pain our household has witnessed because of an irresponsible breeder. Please.....do the right things as a breeder. Be professional.
 
Oh dear. On another forum (purebred dogs forum) there is a discussion on this documentary, which is being aired in Aust next week. I couldn't believe it but there are breeders admitting that they pts puppies they cannot sell (healthy pups, nothing wrong with them) and pts ridgeless ridgeback pups. Is this normal? And what vet would agree to do this? I just cannot believe breeders think this is okay here in Australia. Is this what happens to petshop pups that don't sell as well. I am so upset, I had not realised this was going on. Does this happen to Shelties as well.
 
Sadly, Caro, I expect it happens more than we realise. :( I personally could not be in the same room as a person who did that for fear I may do something I would later come to regret (or not!).

Simple answer - don't breed dogs you can't sell. Some people have no soul.:no:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top