Pondering the liver

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Mom2Melli

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I have noticed quite a few liver issues mentioned here recently and losses due to them. Why might this be?

I have two options -- are shelties particularly prone to liver failure? If so is there any connection to pedigree/lineage and such? Any known predictor?

Other option -- environmental. Are there certain foods or other factors such as flea/tick, HW med, some substance, that don't work well with shelites? Thinking maybe of protein levels? Anything come to mind?

Any wisdom from those who have been experiencing this? Any patterns?
Just brainstorming in case something may be stumbled upon in the way of a liver health support protocol?
 
I wonder if it is a predisposition to liver problems in the breed.
My parents' sheltie had liver failure and I know at least the last few years of his life he had minimal medication. Was fed Pedigree but he was one of those dogs with an iron stomach (his coat on that was far better than Olive's has ever been.)

I've tried to look up his background - whelped in the early 90s, his registered name (we think) was some derivative of Nicholas Jay/Jade (the previous owner never passed on the papers.) I know Peter Pumpkin was somewhere back in his family tree but that doesn't really help. If anyone feels like trying to look it up and find similarities to other shelties with liver problems, feel free.
 
There's got to be a pattern as well as something that will improve long-term management.

Can the higher proteins offered these days be a contributor? I was suprised as some mega-protein food at 30% recently advertised. What damages liver (likely our shelties are not heavy drinkers!)?

Or? I am sure there answer is discoverable with everyone's contributions.
 
Ok, I guess Bacca is the poster child here

He had two conditions....hypothyroid and liver shunt.

Hypothyroid is relatively common in Shelties, but is totally treatable with meds. It does need to be monitored with ongoing blood work to ensure that the meds have stabilized the condition.

While going through typical blood work for Bacca, the vet started to test for liver disease, as a matter of course.

The early stages of liver shunt and/or disease can often be confused with hypothyroidism.

Sure enough, he showed up with highly elevated counts. At first we thought it was a byproduct of his hypothyroidism. Further testing revealed it was most likely a liver shunt which is a congenital condition that the dog has at birth. I would note that liver shunts are not prevalent in Shelties necessarily.

Surgery was an option, but no guarantees. We decided to treat with reduced protein diet and meds.

The by-product of liver disease is something called Hepatic Encephalophy. This is where the liver starts to deliver toxins to the brain, and the dog starts to experience periods of disorientation, pacing, bumping into walls, loss of motor control. Bacca finally gave out because all of his body functions starting to give out, because his brain could not control them.

Some of these symptoms however are similar to dogs that are left untreated with thyroid conditions.

For this reason, if you have a dog that experiences lack of mobility, lack of motor control, disorientation, lack of energy, skin funk (e.g. severe loss of hair and scaling on skin), loss of appetite....

Then run to your vet and ask for a COMPLETE blood sample. It could be any of a number of conditions.....including tick disease, lympthoma, diabetes, allergies etc.

Bottom line is know your dog. And just be aware for changes. One or two days, means the dog probably ate something bad. But if more than a week, then off you go to the vet.

In hindsight, if I had a dog, not himself for more than 2 weeks (after adjusting diet, and eliminating obvious conditions etc.), I would ask for complete blood work, top to bottom

My tuppence worth
 
I lost 5 year old Landree to complications from multiple liver shunts, in January.

Barb has gone over the common symptoms. However, Landree did not exhibit any of these symptoms, except that she was underweight.

Fortunately, she was active and happy until the end. She went down quickly - was fine at noon that day when I went home for lunch. After work, 6 hours later, she was a very sick girl.

The multiple vets and specialists that I took her too, all seem to agree that her liver shunts were a birth defect.

One of the specialists did say that dogs can develop liver shunts after being exposed to toxins (i.e. lawn fertilizer, weed killer, etc)
 
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We see the encephalopathy in humans commonly with cirrhosis of the liver. Ammonia levels rise, and delirium sets in.

I haven't found any link in shelties to liver disease.

In people, obesity leads to fatty liver disease. I expect 9 out of 10 abnormal liver tests in my clinic are caused by this. I wonder if it's a matter of the foods leading to obesity in dogs in general??

http://digestive.niddk.nih.gov/ddiseases/pubs/nash/

As it relates to people....
 
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Mom2Melli said:
I have noticed quite a few liver issues mentioned here recently and losses due to them. Why might this be?

...Any wisdom from those who have been experiencing this? Any patterns?
Just brainstorming in case something may be stumbled upon in the way of a liver health support protocol?
Click to expand...

For anyone who has info to share about Mom2Mellie's query I would like to add an additional request. If your experiences include specifics important to those of us who are searching for a new companion, I would appreciate that info being added. I know that breeders have medical histories, but are there indicators, tests or triggers that might help us avoid potential liver issues with a new pup (or is it sort of a crap shoot that unfolds over time)?
 
JLSOhio51 said:
For anyone who has info to share about Mom2Mellie's query I would like to add an additional request. If your experiences include specifics important to those of us who are searching for a new companion, I would appreciate that info being added. I know that breeders have medical histories, but are there indicators, tests or triggers that might help us avoid potential liver issues with a new pup (or is it sort of a crap shoot that unfolds over time)?
Click to expand...
Its important to ask the breeder outright what are they seeing in their lines..Of course some are living in the land of denial but most id like to think are honest...

I am wondering though if the ones you are seeing pop up with liver issues are actually gallbladder? Gallbladder Mucocele is becoming more and more common in shelties, its a ****ty disease and most vets are unaware of it thus making it misdiagnosed.
 
Concensus so far is know the symptoms and watch for them and more along the congenital route, I see.

I appreciate the combining of several threads into a liver speciality. Thank you to those sharing your little ones' stories here. That is the true value of a forum like this.
 
I've not had a liver problem dog, that I knew of... however,

I recently lost a dog to a severe, acute, pancreatitis. Her pancreatic values were higher than the lab could measure, and she showed no symptoms other than a weight shift and a slightly swollen belly. No vomiting, no diarrhea, nothing.

Anyway, when they did the ultrasound, they found "nodules" on the liver. There was a debate as to whether those nodules were cancerous, and the theory right now is that the pancreatitis was caused by whatever the liver thing was. Yes, they checked the gallbladder too.

She didn't live long enough after that for us to be able to positively diagnose what the liver problem was, and I didn't do a necropsy. But is it possible there were underlying liver "issues" going on? Maybe. All her bloodwork to that point was normal.
 
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