Pondering the liver

Mignarda -- faboulous point overvaccinating has killed us all! Humans, cats, dogs, . . .

What was crazy for me was that CFA's Winn Feline Foundation funded the research on vaccination duration and site tumors and carrier ingredients in the early nineties and we all changed our protocols. It was long long after that dog protocol started to change and it is still not enitrely changed in all corners of dog husbandry like it did for the cats. I know all the reasons, it's just odd to me how fast cat folk embraced the change and dog people did not.

As for humans, well, that is just now coming to light and there needs to be some serious alterations in protocol.
 
Mom2Melli said:
As for humans, well, that is just now coming to light and there needs to be some serious alterations in protocol.
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Most definitely! Vaccination is something like steroids; it seems like a wonderful thing until you realize that the cost of it more often than not outweighs the benefits.

I think one of the most insidious effects of vaccination is weakening the immunity at a time when it might be most needed.
 
I'm finding it difficult to follow this tread.

There is no question in my mind that vets often struggle with distinguishing between gallbladder, hypothyroid and liver issues.


I want to be clear on one point. Liver disease and liver shunts are related, but not the same. The effects may be similar but the cause very differentl. A liver shunt is congenital. Liver disease is a more generic term which could include a congenital or a virus ( eg. In humAn terms...hepatitis).

This makes diagnosis difficult and often very expensive. As I learned, personally. Would I do anything different? Maybe not much. Maybe have gotten a second opinion earlier. I don't think it would have changed anything....Bacca would still have finally succumbed. But I might not have spent thousands of dollars on tests which were a foregone conclusion.
 
Well, I started with wondering why I am seeing SO many liver losses lately, esp. in dogs that seemed too young. What is the reason? Congenital or environmental?

However, it also appears that pancreas and gallbladder are happening very frequently too. What is the reason? Congenital or environmental?

Are we feeding with something or supplementing with something or medicating with something that could be causing any or all of these? Have these gotten genetically embedded and there could be a pedigree link (sort of a few patient zero's and it is seen in certain lines) or even a regional hotspot (meaning a certain group of breeders who all share genes)?


That's a recap -- if anyone would like to continue the pondering. There's got to be some patterns to this. Since some studies are being done on at least some of this, it is worthy to watch over time.

Having a chubby sheltie approaching the 6-7 age window, I am wondering. I see a big critical loss range and then if they push though they are long-lived and one might expect some of these failures by the 14-17 years. Just from reading the boards.

I hope this clarifies direction a little. I think it is great to bring out these symptoms/conditions so that people are aware.
 
I have no idea what the answer is but since I joined the forum I have been surprised at the number of dogs with liver and gallbladder disease. Maybe it is time for the national club to invest money into the investigation of this because this isn't something we hear about in the breeds I am affiliated with or those of many of my friends. If it was just vaccine or diet it should be widespread.
Having said that, sometimes it is just the luck of the draw. My husband suffered a necrotizing pancreatitis 4 years ago that nearly took his life. He had none of the known causes - wasn't overweight, gallbladder normal, didn't drink or smoke and hadn't suffered abdominal injury. We also eat pretty healthy here so we have no idea why this happened. The good news is that although only 25% survive, I believe that hubby did because he was otherwise in good health.
If you are a member of the Sheltie club then see if they can interest a researcher in looking into this problem.
 
This thread has been illuminating for me. My Pixie, who had seizures for the first four years of her life and was cured with homeopathic medications, diet and management, had something that looked rather like a seizure last Wednesday night. But it didn't have the components previous seizures did.

She was walking toward me across the couch when she began to stumble, lost control of her front legs and fell over. I held her on my lap as I did in previous seizures, but there was no trembling or shaking and her eyes were focused. Eventually I put her on the floor and she stumbled again. I put her in a crate for a few hours and she was fine. Watched her like a hawk overnight, still fine, and nothing since.

First I thought it might be the severe arthritis that she has in her front elbows but it doesn't seem like it because she's still jumping up and down on furniture. Now I wonder if there's something else going on with her liver, thyroid etc., after reading this thread. She is about a pound overweight and unable to exercise much because of the arthritis. She's only 8, so very young for all this. We see the vet tomorrow and will go from there. I'll be asking him about the conditions discussed here. Please keep a good thought for my little princess.
 
Ann, I hope you can get some solid answers from your vet tomorrow and that it won't be anything serious for your little Pixie. Please keep us posted. Prayers and hugs for your little lass.

Trini
 
Ann said:
This thread has been illuminating for me. My Pixie, who had seizures for the first four years of her life and was cured with homeopathic medications, diet and management, had something that looked rather like a seizure last Wednesday night. But it didn't have the components previous seizures did.

She was walking toward me across the couch when she began to stumble, lost control of her front legs and fell over. I held her on my lap as I did in previous seizures, but there was no trembling or shaking and her eyes were focused. Eventually I put her on the floor and she stumbled again. I put her in a crate for a few hours and she was fine. Watched her like a hawk overnight, still fine, and nothing since.

First I thought it might be the severe arthritis that she has in her front elbows but it doesn't seem like it because she's still jumping up and down on furniture. Now I wonder if there's something else going on with her liver, thyroid etc., after reading this thread. She is about a pound overweight and unable to exercise much because of the arthritis. She's only 8, so very young for all this. We see the vet tomorrow and will go from there. I'll be asking him about the conditions discussed here. Please keep a good thought for my little princess.
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Oh Ann I do hope it is nothing serious and we are sending much love to you and Pixie. I am getting Harper's blood work done in two more weeks as follow-up to her slightly elevated liver enzymes and will report back at that time.

Many of you know and have endured the trials of liver disease and remember my Seamus' struggle. I get so dismayed by the alarming rate of liver and thyroid issues that I read about in this forum.

These conversations open up a dialogue that is so important. Tagging base and giving information leads to answers.

Unfortunately when you deal with rescue animals there is a fog over their early lives and lineage.

Dr. Dodds impressed upon me how a lower protein diet for our babies is key to a longer and healthier life. Personally I think that over vaccination is also a major kink in our sheltie's health. Please join Dr. Dodds rabies foundation to help her valuable work to recognize rabies titre and have it recognized nationally as a key element to stop over vaccination.

Hugs to all,
Kate
 
This would be something that would take a HUGE study. This is what I am wondering. . .

Could fish oil have something to do with it? How many of the ones that have been lost to/sufferred from liver, pancreas, or gallbladder have taken fish oil? Is that why there seems to be a window right about 6-8 when animals first exhibit signs of arthritis?

With limited time, several sites have supported that fish oil is being increasingly found to have mercury and PCB's (other contaminants). Those can be damaging to those organs as they are body filter/type organs. Remember, they are advising us humans to limit ocean fish consumption due to these and something my mother read in an old-folks health publication recommended people NOT take fish oil due to contaminants.

Also of consideration, if fish oil is taken that reduces vitamin E so vitamin E supplementation must be done. However, over-compensating with vitamin E might change the balance of vitamins A, K, and D. Can some or all of this affect those organs?

Like I said, to figure this out, I would need to be perfoming a major study which I am obviously not able to do.

Overvaccination (in humans) tends to affect neurologic, muscular, systemic syndromes, and site tumors rather than attack organs so I am not sure that may be the cause though I totally agree overvaccination is bad in cats, dog, people, etc.
 
Thanks for the good wishes. We had Pixie's bloodwork done which was normal on all counts except for one thing: her triglicerides were high. My vet said there is an issue most common to schnauzers that causes serious problems from high triglicerides (too much fat in her blood) but not usually seen in Shelties.

I've been feeding her a duck-based food because of her history with seizures but since duck is a fatty food, I'm going to switch her to Fromm Whitefish and Potato which is 11 percent fat vs. 15. She's also been getting a half dose of krill oil and coconut oil to help her joints. I'm eliminating the coconut oil.

We don't know if this was the cause of the seizure or whether it was just her history recurring. Unfortunately, epilepsy in dogs is 8 parts guessing game and 2 parts medicine. So I'll watch her and hold my breath and we'll see what happens. She hasn't had any more seizures since last week so I'm hopeful. :fl

Sending good thoughts for Harper's results, Kate! Please keep us posted.
 
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