pups color?

[Justicemom]

exactly, its the BYB who dont know what they are breeding and producing and calling them sable and than they are bred and you produce so catastrophic results!
And there are some sable merles that are produced that unless you know better would think they are sables. Heck look at "Tanner"

BISS Am Can Ch Laureate Santana ROMC that Tanner. Beautiful dog.

Ember is from Blue Merle x Sable breeding. I wouldn't do it as my best pup would be sable merle with blue eyes and I couldn't show it. But there is nothing wrong with Sable merles as long as you know what your doing.

 

[Calliesmom]

personally love all merles- as a sheltie-holic will only be owning sable merle (got that one already) and blue merle/bi-blue
also love the new word 'smerle' gonna steal that one if it's ok

 

[Calliesmom]

I agree.

Definitely a sable merle.

Here's a link with some pictures that show both blues & sable merles.

http://www.caithreamkennels.com/merle_shelties.html

love that you picked this kennel to illustrate merles as April is the dog that made me aware that there were smerles and made me love the color. pretty sure that I took that pic of her When I first saw her walking past the rings, I did a double-take then said gotta meet her and her owner turned out to be friends with the person that I was hanging out with at the show.

 

[Narmowen]

love that you picked this kennel to illustrate merles as April is the dog that made me aware that there were smerles and made me love the color. pretty sure that I took that pic of her When I first saw her walking past the rings, I did a double-take then said gotta meet her and her owner turned out to be friends with the person that I was hanging out with at the show.

Glad to help!

She is beautiful! My grandmother produced the most gorgeous sable merle...like her markings-really stood out. (He's neutered, though!)

I really haven't seen a Sheltie color that I dislike, though! (Except for double merles, but that's because of the breeding practice).

 

[Herd4fun]

No, you are absolutely correct. Any dog with a merle parent can hypothetically have not enough merle gene to show it, but enough to pass and produce merles (or doubles). However, since the merle gene acts more visibly on black hair than it does on brown hair, you are just more likely to be able to tell a "cryptic" black merle than a "cryptic" sable merle.

The merle gene is tricky. It's not a binary gene, meaning on or off. It's more like a sliding scale. There are some people (the lady who directed "Pedigree Dogs Exposed being one) who would like to see merles bred out of dogs completely.

I'd like to know her reasoning behind that. Thats like purposefully breeding say yellow out of labs because they have a slightly higher chance of hip displasia(just an example).

I am concerned about sable merles and cryptic merles as they do make their way into the breeding population either on purpose or by accident. The safest way to go about it is to not breed sables and merles together.

I would like to eventually be breeding merles and tris and bis. My starting bitch is a tri-factored sable which I'll breed to a bi- or tri- and then the puppy I take will either be bi-or tri- and I'll breed that one to a merle and eventually have merles.

 

[Narmowen]

No, you are absolutely correct. Any dog with a merle parent can hypothetically have not enough merle gene to show it, but enough to pass and produce merles (or doubles). However, since the merle gene acts more visibly on black hair than it does on brown hair, you are just more likely to be able to tell a "cryptic" black merle than a "cryptic" sable merle.

The merle gene is tricky. It's not a binary gene, meaning on or off. It's more like a sliding scale. There are some people (the lady who directed "Pedigree Dogs Exposed being one) who would like to see merles bred out of dogs completely.

Oh, I know I'm correct! I'm a blue breeder myself!

I was just pointing out the obvious (which I'm great at!)

 

[Narmowen]

I'd like to know her reasoning behind that. Thats like purposefully breeding say yellow out of labs because they have a slightly higher chance of hip displasia(just an example).

I am concerned about sable merles and cryptic merles as they do make their way into the breeding population either on purpose or by accident. The safest way to go about it is to not breed sables and merles together.

I would like to eventually be breeding merles and tris and bis. My starting bitch is a tri-factored sable which I'll breed to a bi- or tri- and then the puppy I take will either be bi-or tri- and I'll breed that one to a merle and eventually have merles.

It's probably because the merling gene can hide behind any color. You could easily have a cryptic merle (of either color) and breed it to another cryptic merle without any idea. Or a cryptic bred to a regular merle. Not only that, but because of the strong possibility of birth defects (loss of hearing, blindness, microthalmia etc) when you have a double merle. To me (and others) it's not worth the risk, but I could (hypothetically) breed my blue boy to a tri girl, who's actually a cryptic merle (provided she has a merle parent, or a cryptic merle parent.)

It's not the problem with sables breeding to merles. You can get a cryptic merle of either color. It has nothing to do with them being sable merle or blue merle. There are blues out there who only look blue on a cheek. On an ear. Etc.

 

[ClantyreSheltie]

I'd like to know her reasoning behind that.

Probably that it's easier to dumb something down than to educate people? I can't think of another color gene/modifier that can do as much damage to a dog, other than Harlequin in Danes, but a double-Harlequin dies in utero, so it's not really an issue.

 

[JessicaR]

It's not the problem with sables breeding to merles. You can get a cryptic merle of either color. It has nothing to do with them being sable merle or blue merle. There are blues out there who only look blue on a cheek. On an ear. Etc.

I have one of those Pepper is technically a blue merle, but most people think she is a tri. She has a blue ear, and 1 blue eye in this pic you can kind of see her blue ear

http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u8/rainsmom_2007/100_2981.jpg

 

[Justicemom]

I have one of those Pepper is technically a blue merle, but most people think she is a tri. She has a blue ear, and 1 blue eye in this pic you can kind of see her blue ear

http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u8/rainsmom_2007/100_2981.jpg

I know a lady with a sheltie who looks like a bi black. She is in fact a bi blue. Just a small band of blue near the white on her tail, a small nail sized area on blue on her neck and a thin stripe of blue on her face next to the blaze. 2 dark eyes.

I've seen a puppy that has bi black x blue merle breeding and maybe a cyptic blue. He has an area of lighter fur on his head and it really stands out in pictures as blue. Different lines then the above dog.