Sheltie challanging dominance

H

Hazel

Forums Novice
My Sheltie (Hazel) is 1 year 4 months and challenges me for dominance! When it comes to strangers or other dogs she is instantly submissive rolls over lays down or sits on the persons feet.

But when its me she will challenge me from time to time. At home she will be on the sofa and when I tell her down. Most of the time she will get down right away, however some days she will sit on the sofa and stair me down.

She barks like crazy when I go to leave and messes on the floor even if she has just been out (quoter sized pee spots). I have been crating her when I leave to solve this problem as she won't mess in the crate.

She is a good walker and will listen to my commands when on the lead however if she gets of the led, sometimes she will take off and not come back and attempt to herd me by doing figure 8s around me, other time she will return to me no issues. I have taken her to trainers and asked for there advice, but because she is submissive with new people they never see this behavior.

I don't know what to do about it, I use a reward/corrective training system now. For correction the only thing that I have found to work on her is to pin her and tap her back leg. I used the leg tap when led training her, she screams like I'm killing her but she responds to it and takes the correction. Reward is a treat or pets.

Last night she got out of my car as I was getting out to go pick up my girlfriend and she was running through 4 lanes of high traffic, I thought for sure she was going to be hit. I need to find and end to this challenging. Advice? Or anyone know of a good trainer in the Ottawa area that can help me with this.
 
Hi Hazel,

I think you'll find that going to a basic obedience class will help you manage all of her problems immensely. A good trainer will be able to help you with your recall as well. I think BarbV, a member of the forum lives in your area, so she may be able to recommend someone for you do go to.

Pinning her is likely too harsh. Definitely look into an obedience class.

As for getting out of the car uninvited, that was one of the first thing I taught my two. They are not allowed to go out any door without being invited first. I started by leashing them and putting them in a sit. I'd then say 'wait' and move my hand in front of their face like I'm making a stop signal. Then I'd open the door. If they broke the sit I'd say 'ah ah,' pull them back and start the process over. When you want to let her through the door say 'ok,' and give praise when she moves forward. They catch on pretty quickly. When she gets this at a door way you can use it on any opening, including a car. Any time she gets out of the car uninvited give a stern 'NO!' and haul her back into the car. Its important that she realized that leaving the car without being invited is a big no no. When she starts waiting to be invited out of the car, get really excited so that she knows she's done something REALLY good. Always practice with the leash on until you're confident that she won't jump out of the car on her own, for both her safety and for your sanity.

As for the other issues, I'm having the same sort of problems with my 8 month old pup Ginny, who is just the bossiest little thing. Our problem is that we've been too easy on her, despite her strong personality. She's very small and its hard to think of her as anything other than a tiny little puppy.

Ginny is mainly bossy with our other dog and some times harasses her, steals all of the toys and she's started peeing in the house for our attention. Like your girl, Ginny is shy and extremely submissive around dogs she'd doesn't know, something I'm trying to work on.

Ginny's peeing in the house has gotten so bad that I've gone back to basics with her. She is no longer allowed to run around the house on her own, she's now leashed to myself or my husband all of the time when she's inside. It depends on the dog but I'm going to do this for at least a week, assuming no accidents. I've noticed a big change in her behavior since doing this (we're on day 3), she's much more well behaved, is listening better and faster and she's not asking to go out as often either, which was another quirk of hers.

Ginny is getting crated more often now also. Like when she was a puppy, she is crated whenever we can't keep a close eye on her. She's also sleeping in the crate at night instead of her dog bed in our room and she goes to bed early, to give us a break from the constant watching and give Sadie a break too.

Ginny doesn't get any food without doing something to earn it first. She's also no longer allowed on the furniture or the bed, as this elevates her status since she's higher up.

I walk her with a gentle leader. Previously she pulled and lately she's not paying attention to me, walks under my feet and trips Sadie as well. The gentle leader seems to calm her down and also stops all misbehavior.

I hope this helps you!
 
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I would advise against the pinning as well. Shelties are by nature very sensative. Pinning her is a much greater punishment than it would be to some other breeds.

Are you sure she's trying to dominate and not dealing with some seperation anziety coupled with sheltie natural herding instinct? There's a couple threads talking about the way our little furkids react when part of their flock tries to leave!

If you haven't taken any classes, I'd strongly reccommend them as well. Any good trainer should be able to guide you to success here.
 
Personally, it doesn't sound like dominance behavior to me

First thing I would do is make sure she a good leash and collar, so she can't off the led. You don't want this poor baby getting hit by a car or running away.

I would also get a urine sample test for a urinary tract infection before you treat her urinating in the house as a behavioral issue.

Onartiosheltie gave you some great advice Good luck!
 
I would definitely stop pinning her down right away. Be consistent with your training, be very careful in your corrections and your timing... Sometimes using punitive and treat reward training at the same time can lead to complete frustration and confusion, imo
 
The peeing is behavioral, she can hold her pee when she is in the crate, and when I'm with her she gives me cues when she needs to go out, its when she is left alone and her movement to me is blocked.

Why is the pinning and a tap to the flank (Its not always a pin and a tap to the flank, mostly just a tap to her flank) to harsh its the only correction I have found that works? Shaker cans, water bottles spray bottles, or holding her noise does not work she doesn't react to them, sonic collars and static collars don't work ether she barks until they shut off. Corrections are given right after or during the unwanted behavior. I'm open to other forms of corrections but just telling me pinning isn't the best way doesn't really help, what other forms of corrections might work?

When she got out of the car she was on a led she managed to jump out before I was even up out of my seat.

My Vet, and Vet techs some with shelites or other herding dogs all told me its a dominance thing that herding dogs are can be very dominant some don't ever stop challenging. Her staying on my sofa and staring me down is a dominance issue. Her selective hearing and refusal to listen to commands, I don't see how that can be anything but a dominance issue?
 
Hazel said:
The peeing is behavioral, she can hold her pee when she is in the crate, and when I'm with her she gives me cues when she needs to go out, its when she is left alone and her movement to me is blocked.

Why is the pinning and a tap to the flank (Its not always a pin and a tap to the flank, mostly just a tap to her flank) to harsh its the only correction I have found that works? Shaker cans, water bottles spray bottles, or holding her noise does not work she doesn't react to them, sonic collars and static collars don't work ether she barks until they shut off. Corrections are given right after or during the unwanted behavior. I'm open to other forms of corrections but just telling me pinning isn't the best way doesn't really help, what other forms of corrections might work?

When she got out of the car she was on a led she managed to jump out before I was even up out of my seat.

My Vet, and Vet techs some with shelites or other herding dogs all told me its a dominance thing that herding dogs are can be very dominant some don't ever stop challenging. Her staying on my sofa and staring me down is a dominance issue. Her selective hearing and refusal to listen to commands, I don't see how that can be anything but a dominance issue?
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I'm sorry that you're so frustrated, I was there last week with Ginny, telling her it's a good thing she's so friggin' cute!

I've given you all of the tips I can think of, as a few of us have. Some of us believe in dog dominance, some of us don't. Others believe in only positive training while others believe in corrective training, as you've been doing. These differences in opinions are probably the reason you've gotten varying comments. The thing is, none of us are trainers or behaviorists, we're just speaking from our own experiences.

You really should look into taking her to an obedience class and consult with a professional.
 
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IMHO sometimes you have to use both positive and corrective training. Sometimes even the most sensitive of breeds, Shelties/Golden Retrievers are capable of behaving very inappropriately and it's our job as responsible parents to correct it..:smile2:
 
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