Isn't it aweful. Chinook obedience instructor uses 'corrections'. She does not use choke or prong collars, but the corrections are scary too. I saw these pups (all between 7-15 months of age) cringe when the leash was yanked. Her 'correction' for barking was to take a firm hold on the wind pipe of the dog on the throat! Or if the dog was not listening she would take a good hold of the dog by its scruf and lift it off the ground and yell at it! I've never used corrections with Chinook. He is so eager to learn. The other people just stood there and some called me a 'show off' because Chinook was so well behaved and would listen so well - with NO corrections. If he made a mistake, that was fine, we just started over. At the last class, one lady asked: 'so what is the correction for when the dog does _________ at home?' I was amazed as how little these owners knew about training a dog and all they wanted was a 'quick', 'easy' 'solution' to the 'problem' - which really could have been dealt with in a positive way - hey news flash! Spend some time with your dog and play with it. These are puppies! They don't understand the english language - so if you say 'stop barking' or something, the dog has NO clue what you are saying so how is it supposed to obey?? Would you tell an infant 'stop crying' and if it doesn't punish it??? Needless to say, we are not in that class anymore. The instructor and I did not see eye to eye on how to train a dog.
Shock Collars
- Thread starter take4roll10
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take4roll10
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The dog was an 8 month old Australian Shepard. The guys also looked like they were straight out of MTV's Jersey Shore Show. Ahhh the joys of living in New York. I guarantee you the puppy just has a lot of teenage energy and these guys are not taking the time to tire him out. People do not do their research on breeds and how much time and patience it takes to raise a dog. I could just be jumping to conclusions, but if I ever see them or the trainer again, I will go up and say something.
I don't believe in shock collars for any dog. It's beyond cruel. If I would have tried that with Fergus I would have gotten nowhere. I have to be careful not to even raise my voice with him, it totally freaks him out. He learns very quickly without any so called "corrections" too. I did use a choke collar on him in class because he slips a regular collar but it was never jerked or pulled to correct him. It's amazing the methods some people use and still call themselves trainers.
BarbV
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And I used to wonder if Martingales were too much!
Cripes!
Cripes!
Shame on you Ania! You should figure out a way to punish Chinook for the other folks in the class.. Tell ya what you need to do..
1) Train Chinook to bark then fall down playing dead.. if you can get him to cringe that would be a bonus..
2) rig up a remote LED to strap on his neck. put it on the outside of a black box with a yellow warning label saying 'Avoid human contact'
3) Create a tazer shaped contraption to point at him.. make it big and ugly with wires and such hanging out. place the remote LED controller on it..
4) bring him class and 'demonstrate' it to them.. they will all want one!!
5) Sell them a box with a note in it saying.. 'Respect your pet, positive reinforcement.. get a clue!'
Oh.. and no refunds!!
I think you are on to something......
That's why I'll never own one of those collars, either.
I know they are popular here, but I just don't like the concept. People say their dogs "got it" after a few times wearing it, but the dog "got it" because it was closing around it's neck. I think they are a very Cesar Millan way of dealing with a problem.
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romeosangiovese
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HAHAH! Strider! Love it!
I agree that alot of people just want quick easy solutions and they fail to see how their "solution" is actually not making the problem go away but causing more problems and making things so much worse. I've been trying to get newbie owners onboard the positive reinforcement wagon and telling them to listen to their dog, respect it so that it can trust them but it often falls on deaf ears.
There is a trainer here who uses choke chains and ecollars who has DRAGGED a dog over a broad walk until its paws bled coz it was scared to go over it. I don't know how the owner could have let this happen coz I would have taken that plank and smashed it over the trainer's head!! He THROWS chains at puppies to teach attention and wouldn't think twice before putting an ecollar on an aggressive dog. But hundreds flock to him because he has a reputation and his dogs are "well trained" and can do perfect heels and whatnot (except what some people don't know is his dogs would rather run away from him - it's been witnessed!). He likes to show off and people tend to buy into that whole performance - they go "Ooooo! Wow! I want my dog like that!" He trains dogs for TV, he's been doing this since the 80s. My mum wanted me to go to him, because of his "amazing rep".
I don't understand why people can't just take the time to understand their dog and work WITH them instead of against them. Like now I know Romeo likes to move, he loves energetic activities. He may not do well in obedience trials going through slow controlled movements but I think he'll really excel in agility or jumpers - he loves flying over hurdles and racing through tunnels. Why go against their nature and force them to do something they don't want to do? Why create robots? These people just want results. They don't care how they get it. Personally, so long as we have fun we'll get to our end goal eventually. It may take more time, but along the way, I learn more about my dog and he learns to trust me and learns to enjoy working. That's far more rewarding than a perfect heel. I wish more people could see that.
I agree that alot of people just want quick easy solutions and they fail to see how their "solution" is actually not making the problem go away but causing more problems and making things so much worse. I've been trying to get newbie owners onboard the positive reinforcement wagon and telling them to listen to their dog, respect it so that it can trust them but it often falls on deaf ears.
There is a trainer here who uses choke chains and ecollars who has DRAGGED a dog over a broad walk until its paws bled coz it was scared to go over it. I don't know how the owner could have let this happen coz I would have taken that plank and smashed it over the trainer's head!! He THROWS chains at puppies to teach attention and wouldn't think twice before putting an ecollar on an aggressive dog. But hundreds flock to him because he has a reputation and his dogs are "well trained" and can do perfect heels and whatnot (except what some people don't know is his dogs would rather run away from him - it's been witnessed!). He likes to show off and people tend to buy into that whole performance - they go "Ooooo! Wow! I want my dog like that!" He trains dogs for TV, he's been doing this since the 80s. My mum wanted me to go to him, because of his "amazing rep".
I don't understand why people can't just take the time to understand their dog and work WITH them instead of against them. Like now I know Romeo likes to move, he loves energetic activities. He may not do well in obedience trials going through slow controlled movements but I think he'll really excel in agility or jumpers - he loves flying over hurdles and racing through tunnels. Why go against their nature and force them to do something they don't want to do? Why create robots? These people just want results. They don't care how they get it. Personally, so long as we have fun we'll get to our end goal eventually. It may take more time, but along the way, I learn more about my dog and he learns to trust me and learns to enjoy working. That's far more rewarding than a perfect heel. I wish more people could see that.
That's why I'll never own one of those collars, either.
I think they are a very Cesar Millan way of dealing with a problem.
Before I even got a dog, I looked at harnesses. My very first dog I had a choke collar, but he'd wiggle out of it. I also didn't like the idea of strangling a poor dog just because I need to keep moving.
I have two styles, one that fits perfect for Daisy as I don't have to lift her one good front leg, and the other will be Lady's. Neither go over the throat, and allow for unrestrained pulling on the leash if they so chose. Good dog behaviour is a result of positive owner-dog relationship.
A coworker of mine at work told me to get a prong collar, "you'd only need to use it once, shelties are so smart" and then from then on I'd only need to rattle the chain and they'd be reminded of it.
Which I said "yeah okay" and knew I'd never use. In fact as I was looking for dog obedience classes, I specifically had one major question, what kinds of reinforcement/punishment system do you use (I was a psychology major in college, so I want to do positive reinforcement), and do you believe in choke collars? the lady I'm going with told me that in all her years, she's only once used a prong collar, and made the owner use caps with it (BIG dog and still growing already over 200lbs). She said it was horrible that ppl take little min pins and get choke collars for them. (I'm sorry if you can't control a dog that weights less than 5 lbs, you shouldn't have a dog, get a picture of one and frame it)
I thought it was across the board now that trainers know to use only positive reinforcement 
We went to a trainer when our beloved Golden boy Tyler was a puppy who used the same type of force and agression methods. As I watched her knee a dog BC he wouldn't sit or whatever, I turned to my husband and said, "UH, NO WAY, let's leave".
We went to a trainer when our beloved Golden boy Tyler was a puppy who used the same type of force and agression methods. As I watched her knee a dog BC he wouldn't sit or whatever, I turned to my husband and said, "UH, NO WAY, let's leave".