The breed hit list

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Lightplum

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So in light of last weeks Crufts DQ, and as I predicted they were going to add breeds to the list..well they did..including the Shetland Sheepdog..While it isnt horrible bad its extremely vague..who makes the decisions on eyes that are too small...how do they determine this?!?! The teeth well thats a no-brainer and not subjective but eye size?!?!

I hate to say but I think this past show was the last one for crufts..:no:

http://www.the-kennel-club.org.uk/services/public/breed/watch/Default.aspx
 
I was under the impression that they'd always been aware of too small or deepest eyes as it can be linked to or a sign of CEA? So it being updated on a watch list for Judges of the breed is more of a formality that anything else...
 
Excessively small eyes is strange. They can just tell if a dog has CEA by doing a test - all dogs on the show register here have to have the test so wouldn't that be the easiest thing to implement? Tully has CEA but has large eyes - she is on the full (show) register but, according to the rules could only be bred to a dog that is CEA clear (the gene pool here is not big enough to exclude all CEA dogs atm).

Why would you breed a Sheltie with very small eyes anyway, can't imagine they would be that attractice or desirable. Missing teeth, I agree that's a no brainer, why wouldn't they already be dismissing those dogs.

Be interested in reading the research for Shelties.
 
English??????????

I would suggest that everyone take into consideration that the website cited above is English and appears to reflect the English perspective, and not that the SHELTIE - SHETLAND SHEEPDOG - IS A SCOTTISH AND NOT AN ENGLISH BREED. Perhaps this reflects the English viewpoint in general (my apologies to English Sheltie Nation members who obviously know better). If Sheltie standards are to be judged at all outside of the US where most are bred, then perhaps it should be in Scotland. Regards, Will
 
*Caro said:
Excessively small eyes is strange. They can just tell if a dog has CEA by doing a test - all dogs on the show register here have to have the test so wouldn't that be the easiest thing to implement? Tully has CEA but has large eyes - she is on the full (show) register but, according to the rules could only be bred to a dog that is CEA clear (the gene pool here is not big enough to exclude all CEA dogs atm).
Click to expand...

Yes, this would be the easiest way to evaluate eyes... but here in the US, the test is 100% optional, you don't have to share the results, and you can register breedings of CEA to CEA, merle to merle, anything to anything, so long as it's purebred and you send your money to the AKC. :wink2:

The Australian system (integrating health-tests, the conformation ring, and breeding clearances) seems like a no-brainer to me. Unfortunately, I'm afraid it would go over like a lead balloon here in the states. The recent Crufts DQ's prompted AKC president Dennis Sprung to zap out an email stating that this sort of thing will "Never!!!" [sic] happen here.
 
Will said:
I would suggest that everyone take into consideration that the website cited above is English and appears to reflect the English perspective, and not that the SHELTIE - SHETLAND SHEEPDOG - IS A SCOTTISH AND NOT AN ENGLISH BREED. Perhaps this reflects the English viewpoint in general (my apologies to English Sheltie Nation members who obviously know better). If Sheltie standards are to be judged at all outside of the US where most are bred, then perhaps it should be in Scotland. Regards, Will
Click to expand...

I beg to differ the Kennel Club is a UK organisation. The UK being "The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland". Great Britain being England, SCOTLAND and Wales. England and Scotland unified in 1707. IF Scotland devolves it's government it will no longer be part of the UK. But as they are part of the UK and scottish dogs are all registered by the UK Kennel Club this site is the perfect place to go for Sheltie standards outside of the US!

The list including these faults is not adding the Sheltie to the list of 15 watched breeds, I was on the phone to the KC yesterday on another topic and enquired about the changes. It is purely looking to ensure that judges are doing their jobs properly and that the standards are kept as high as they currently are in the breed. We don't need the focus to be only on the problem breeds so that it slips elsewhere.
 
I know I am coming in "late to the party" but I hope that all the Kennel Clubs will be more proactive in regards to health and temperament issues found in all breeds. I'm sorry if this offends but maybe making it difficult to show will force some breeders to take more responsibility to produce better, healthier dogs. I find it reprehensible that fellow exhibitors tell me how their Doberman's usually live about 8 years, or other breeders tell me they were able to get a litter out of a hypothyroid bitch, westie breeders that are unconcerned about skin issues, top dogs with the worst movement but a great handler, slipped stifles and autoimmune problems in poodles etc. etc. etc. Since a lot of breeders are all too willing to overlook these problems in the quest for that next "show" dog then there has to be some regulating done by the governing bodies. I bred and showed westies for 30 years, had some nice wins both by the dogs that were bred by me and kept as well as those sold to others. The show dog that I should be most proud of, out of my specialty winning male, won 9 all breed Bests here in Canada and finished in the US in one weekend, breeder- owner- handled. She had a soft coat which is a bad fault, not a health problem but hard to care for, but that was overlooked by all those judges. She had a lovely conformation and great attitude in the ring and maybe deserved her Championship but not the winning she did. People clamoured to get one of her offspring but she was spayed and lived life as an obedience dog. That is the reason that I am able to continue my friendship with her owner. It has really gotten to the point that I have only a handful of breeders that I can send someone to and feel sure that the breeder is adament about health and temperament and does their level best to ensure that each puppy produced is not a health crisis waiting to happen. This is not only in my own breed but in all the others as well. We shouldn't have to use extreme measures to maintain a healthy dog. I feel the same way about breeding performance dogs. People are breeding high energy dogs for things like flyball and agility but what about the dogs that are born with excessive drive but not the structure to be able to use that high drive up? Many of them end up in shelters or rescue because their owners can't live with them. Worse, they end up on a site like Kijiji looking for a new home and puppy mills buy them up. I know of one lady that has a sheltie that had 4 homes in one month and it isn't hard to figure out why! I applaud these first steps taken by the Kennel Club of Great Britain even if they were "forced" into doing something and if that is the end of Crufts then so be it. I hope that the AKC and the CKC follows suit.
 
Hi all, me back again!:wink2:

Just to say I know the date on the link is recent but I'm fairly sure that both eyes and teeth have been on for a while, not added post Crufts.

The reasoning for the teeth is obvious, but for the eyes...the standard calls for a medium size almond shaped eye, however in the quest to produce a 'sweeter' expression, some breeders/judges favour a smaller eye.

I suppose it's easiest using my boys as an example, My Revel has the sweetest kindest expression, as does his friend 'Harle', both have been critisised for having over large eyes. Yogi on the other hand has been praised for his sweetness of expression but he does have a smaller eye. To my mind, you can see Revel's and Harle's souls in their eyes and while Yogi has a sweet expression, his eyes are actually unreadable.

I could be wrong but I think in the UK we focus very heavily on expression, some might say possibly to the detriment of other aspects. I have heard people complain that shelties are becoming a 'head' breed (i.e. judged on head and expression) and that is wrong for a working dog.

Small eyes I believe are not a worry due to CEA but due to physical malformations such as blocked tear ducts, ingrowing eyelashes etc that are more prevelant in abnormally small eyes. The purpose of Breed Watch is to highlight areas of concern in a breed before they become a serious problem - pre-emptive if you like - and I think are based on judges' reports.

Regarding the Standard, it written as a result of a combining of the Scottish and English Standards when the clubs combined to form the English Shetland Sheepdog Club. The KC owns the Standards though. Obviously there have been various revisions since the original - mostly in respect of size adjustments and adjustments to fit the official KC format- but the basic standard is broadly the same as the original version.

Shelties are NOT on the list of 15 high pofile breeds and I'm pretty sure they would be in one of the 'lowest risk' categories, compared to many others. However, this should not mean complacency. A science paper which is frequently referred to highlights all of the 50 most common breeds in the UK as having some aspect of their conformation which affects health or welfare. I have not read the paper as unfortunatly it is not freely available, but I'm given to understand that shelties (and border collies) are included - on the basis of the merle colouration affecting hearing etc. Now I would dispute that colouring is technically an aspect of conformation, however, that is the sort of pressure which is now being brought to bear on purebred breeds of dogs.

I don't think 2012 will be the last Crufts by any means (I hope not!!) but it will be interesting to see what will happen over the coming year. Some exhibitors have formed a group called the Canine Alliance and it has some high profile members, so we shall see. I'm in two minds on this as I can see both 'sides', especially as I know one of the non awarded BOB dogs personally so have some 'inside' involvement.

I don't think anyone is not in favour of improving health and welfare, however, the bone of contention (if you'll pardon the pun) is the manner in which it is being done. The KC wields the power but it is the exhibitors, breed clubs and judges that basically support the KC. Should it lose their trust then its capacity to bring about any kind of substantial change will be limited.
Interesting times ahead!
 
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