To Debark or not?

[HopeShelties]

I agree with Danisgoat. She makes a very good point.

 

[celloyogi]

I would go with the bark softening.

I personally find it cruel to train a dog out of their natural instinct to bark. I find it more cruel to scream at them for something that they are bred to do. I am not talking about barking at you for demanding something, but that instinct to run around the yard barking their little heads off. That is a sheltie. Training them out of it is just plain cruel. I think that would cause constant stress in their little heads, and make them act out in other ways. I would rather a relaxed dog versus a stressed out one.

Bark softened dogs are happy and can actually be the Sheltie they were bred to be.

I agree. This is an excellent point; it will still fall on deaf ears if someone believes the bark is removed.

 

[Jess041]

I would go with the bark softening.

I personally find it cruel to train a dog out of their natural instinct to bark. I find it more cruel to scream at them for something that they are bred to do. I am not talking about barking at you for demanding something, but that instinct to run around the yard barking their little heads off. That is a sheltie. Training them out of it is just plain cruel. I think that would cause constant stress in their little heads, and make them act out in other ways. I would rather a relaxed dog versus a stressed out one.

Bark softened dogs are happy and can actually be the Sheltie they were bred to be.

Well, I don't train my dog not to bark.. but I do try to keep her from barking at times I consider "inappropriate." And maybe in dog world, it's not inappropriate to bark at other dogs you see in the apartment complex... she's just saying "hi! I'm over here! come play with me!" but I see it as "my dog is being reactive." So when she starts getting excited at the sight of another dog and barking and pulling, I make her sit and I do say "no barking". But when she's playing with other dogs and barking up a storm, I let her carry on because I know that's how she plays and there's really no stopping her. People ask me often, "Does she bark a lot at home?" and I just shrug and say no... only when she's playing with other dogs.

 

[Mignarda]

I think there's a very wide range of opinion amongst pet owners as to what constitutes "mutilation" of an animal. A young military man I work with was telling me one day about his very destructive cat:

"This *$%!^# cat won't stop tearing things up! He's torn up the *$%!^# sofa, the curtains, and everything else! The *$%!^# cat is driving us *$%!^# crazy!"

"Have you had him declawed?" I asked.

"Oh, no!" he replied. "I mean, cats need their claws to survive. That would be cruel. I could never do that to a cat." He paused a minute, before adding, "Of course, we had his *$%!^# nuts chopped off."

 

[rose]

my take is this, you have a vet you know and trust to do this. much better your vet does it then to move to a new place, find a new vet...etc.

 

[JLSOhio51]

I think there's a very wide range of opinion amongst pet owners as to what constitutes "mutilation" of an animal... :

"This *$%!^# cat won't stop tearing things up!... "Have you had him declawed?" I asked.

"Oh, no!" ... I could never do that to a cat." ..."Of course, we had his *$%!^# nuts chopped off."

Mignarda:

You make a very valid point. I find it interesting when individuals use terms like "mutilated" or "murdered" when discussing issues over which millions of people around the world have reasons (many logical) for standing on either side of an issue. My opinion is that it is rarely necessary to use such inflammatory rhetoric when there is sound, logical reasoning behind whatever position you take, if you truly want to engage a dialog. But that's just my opinion.

Your story about the military man sort of reminds me of something my father told me about having surgery. "Minor surgery, they cut someone else - major surgery, they cut you". Mutilation is what that guy over there does to his animals - responsible pet ownership is when I do it to mine. There are things that I would never do to an animal of mine. That doesn't make it mutilation if someone does it to their animal.

 

[Silaria]

I would go with the bark softening.

I personally find it cruel to train a dog out of their natural instinct to bark. I find it more cruel to scream at them for something that they are bred to do. I am not talking about barking at you for demanding something, but that instinct to run around the yard barking their little heads off. That is a sheltie. Training them out of it is just plain cruel. I think that would cause constant stress in their little heads, and make them act out in other ways. I would rather a relaxed dog versus a stressed out one.

Bark softened dogs are happy and can actually be the Sheltie they were bred to be.

Mignarda:

You make a very valid point. I find it interesting when individuals use terms like "mutilated" or "murdered" when discussing issues over which millions of people around the world have reasons (many logical) for standing on either side of an issue. My opinion is that it is rarely necessary to use such inflammatory rhetoric when there is sound, logical reasoning behind whatever position you take, if you truly want to engage a dialog. But that's just my opinion.

Your story about the military man sort of reminds me of something my father told me about having surgery. "Minor surgery, they cut someone else - major surgery, they cut you". Mutilation is what that guy over there does to his animals - responsible pet ownership is when I do it to mine. There are things that I would never do to an animal of mine. That doesn't make it mutilation if someone does it to their animal.

I need a "Like" button for both of these posts.

 

[SpaceCadet]

I do know of several dogs who had tails docked for medical (not cosmetic) reasons. They were all major tail-waggers and yes, they broke all sorts of things in the owners' homes. That was not the reason for the docking - all the owners rearranged their homes to accommodate the wagging. All of the dogs managed to split open the skin on their tails, so frequently and so many times that all the owners were told docking was the only option; not enough tissue padding, never had a chance to heal before being split again. And how could one possibly try to train away a dog's wagging tail? One of the owners has a home with cathedral ceilings and they were never able to get all the blood droplets from the high corners. The decision to dock was agony for everyone and not lightly made.

I do agree with you about docking tails and cropping ears for cosmetic reasons. Pointless and stupid procedures.

When I was a dog groomer, I met several dogs who had to have their tails docked because they literally broke their tails. It was horrifying! Coincidentally, they were breeds that usually have their tails docked anyways. I never understood why anyone would dock a dog's tail until I met those dogs. Now it makes perfect sense.

 

[BarbV]

Quite the thread!

My opinion:

1) you should be aware that due barking may not last forever. Seems the bark can come back. Indy was debarked before I adopted him. At that time his bark was a kinda of "huffing" sound. 4 years later he is barking at high volume

2). I personally would do it if I had no other options. I would rather have the operation done than lose my dog.

3). There are alternatives. Training is key. And training with aids even easier. We used the Pet Corrector at my pet store for Toby, my groomers Papillion, who likes to guard the front door. If you don't know it is an aerosol can that you press. It emits a loud hissing noise that grabs their attention

Others have used bark collars. Citronella doesn't work well with Shelties because of their ruff. You must put a bandana underneath

I've mixed reviews on ultrasonic and vibrating collars. I'm not a fan. Simply because I don't like not being in control of the training.

What IS working for me is a handheld ultrasonic remote. One press and Indy stops dead in his tracks. These days I rarely have to use it anymore. And if he does start all I have to do is "mimic" that I'm pressing the button. Instant quiet. Amazing.

But it does not work for all dogs. Bacca doesn't seem to hear it all

My tuppence.