Vaccination Waivers/Exemptions

Rabies is very much a 'population dynamics' issue.
Some vaccinations you get to provide an individual's protection - Lyme, Feleuk. Others you give for 'herd immunity '- keep the great bulk of the population protected and you prevent epidemics. Examples are canine and feline distemper, parvo, and in humans diphtheria.
If you don't give your child a diphtheria vacc no worries, as long as everybody else shows more responsibility for the community than you do.

The thing about rabies is that once you are capable of spreading the disease you will be dead in a week. So it needs a large susceptible population to keep it going. The fox/skunk populations arent that high. Feral cats and raccoons are more of a problem. But if our domesticated dog and cat populations were at risk there could indeed be an explosion of cases.
So, yes, it is a matter of keeping a high percentage of the community protected. It is not like, say, Lyme, where percentage of dogs vaccinated has
no bearing on risk of exposure.

From the standpoint of 'herd immunity' vs ptrotecting the individual from exposure from an 'outside the herd' source, rabies is a bit of a 'tweener.
-Dr. Mac
 
In the end, law or not, if my animal has immunity, I'm not vaccinating them again... I don't follow unjust laws just because their laws. With the cat, I'm weighing the risks and will take responsibility should something happen. I find it sickening we're having to fight for medical exemptions.... and very telling.
 
I can't help but laugh at someone telling me to educate myself on vaccines when I bet I know more about each individual ingredient and their effects than anyone on here. Have you ever taken apart the ingredients and researched them? Do you understand what formaldhyde does to the brain? Do you understand how vaccines literally change an animal's DNA? I think not. So let's get back to the topic of vaccine exemptions and I'm hoping a mod will step in and enforce staying on topic. I didn't ask a question -- I said I'm not sure how and I don't want to get into it because if we want to discuss vaccine immunity, we can start another thread.

Sorry, but you are very much misinformed. As an example, you previously stated in your first post to this thread:

Yes, I agree misusing medical exemptions is not the right thing to do. i'm pretty sure most people would agree with that. If you don't want to give your animal rabies, not based on a medical issue, then just don't do it...[sic]

Vaccinating an animal against a given disease, human or otherwise, does NOT "give" that animal the disease. This is a basic assumption made by many who do not understand a) basic immunology, b) basic biology, and of course, c) how vaccines work.

A "positive" on a titer does not mean an animal has a disease; it means they have antibodies to that disease - an indication of previous exposure, either by infection or by vaccination. Note infection and vaccination are different. Even live, attenuated vaccines do not infect an animal with the complete pathogen - attenuated is weakened, reduced; in the right circumstances it has the potential to create disease but that is uncommon. And then there's the age-old question as to whether viruses are really alive (they are not really dead or alive). As far as vaccines "chang[ing] an animal's DNA", you seem to have misunderstood what you have been reading. Any animal's immune system is going to "learn" to respond to external threats (pathogens); this is normal. If any of us (people, dogs, etc) lacked this, our adaptive immune response, we'd be screwed. Sounds like you are referring to naked DNA vaccines, or maybe the recombo vectors, both of which to my knowledge are still considered experimental.

I assume you've never given any thought to the fact that you have already vaccinated yourself and all of your pets to many different illnesses without your consent, without a waiver. You are mammals and you had mothers - boom! Vaccinated! You breathe everyday and inhale all sorts of pathogens - boom! Vaccinated! You have skin with millions of pores - boom! Vaccinated! You or your pet spent time with another of the same species with a little virus - boom! Vaccinated! You can argue that these didn't involve dangerous chemicals like formaldehyde or mercury, but I will counter that your naturally acquired immunizations may have been more dangerous (using the vaccine components=bad concept) than any injection or drop at the doctor's office. Nature gives you whatever it has at the time; it isn't meticulously measured and prepared and sterilized. No one is ever (I hope) going to start issuing waivers allowing people to forgo breathing to avoid immunizations.

This complete lack of understanding of vaccines is a problem for people and our fuzzy pets. Parents who believe their children are being "given" a disease, or who think vaccine components are going to brain-damage their child, are contributing to the increase in diseases such as pertussis, measles, mumps, rubella, even polio. Herd immunity is protective, but by definition only works when the vast majority of the herd has all of its shots. Many animal-diseases are considered rare or unusual by the public now, but the lack of disease is due to the diligence of responsible veterinarians and pet owners who vaccinate. Just like with people-diseases, the more pets who are not vaccinated, the more common these "rare" diseases will be, as disease spreads. That little pathogen finds a little crack and just picks away until there is a giant gaping hole where the fortress known as modern science used to be.

I stand behind vaccines. I work in the medical (human) industry and work with research methods and analysis. I have yet to see any vaccine study that I find scarier than most of what I've read about so-called homeopathic remedies. Vaccines have years and years of solid research to back up their use and prove their effectiveness and safety, as well as show the consequences of dropping or nonexistent vaccination rates.

And as far as cats not biting - ha. I've volunteered for cat rescues for years and while I have not been bitten, I have had too many close calls to count, and just about every vet/vet tech/shelter worker I know has at least one bite story. Most of our pets are great with us, but none of us can predict with absolute certainty how our pets would react in certain situations (same goes for people!).

If you choose not to keep up with your pet(s) vaccinations, at least get antibody titers checked as recommended by your veterinarian. Otherwise you are putting not only your pet, but all animals who come into contact with your pet, at unnecessary risk.
 
I find it sickening we're having to fight for medical exemptions.... and very telling.

I, and I think others , are having a little trouble following this, as you seem to be arguing two seperate points. Our initial two posts suggested much common ground.
We all agree there should be medical exemptions. So do most responsible people. As said I have worked on this personally, and here is the AVMA position, which couldn't be clearer, including a sample waiver to make it easier, so I'm not sure what is 'very telling'.

==However, AVMA recognizes some animals might require a waiver from rabies vaccination because the vaccination poses an unacceptably high risk to the health of the individual animal, or a waiver might be necessary for research purposes. If adequate steps can be taken to minimize the chance of exposure to rabies virus, the AVMA recommends that such animals be granted a waiver from mandatory rabies vaccination, upon recommendation of a licensed veterinarian and with the concurrence of the appropriate public health authorities. The attached "Model Annual Rabies Vaccination Waiver Form" may be used as a template for this purpose.==

I gather you are thinking that the reason every state doesn't have one is because veterinarians are protecting their income. This is not necessarily the case. (Though in some cases it might be.) For example , the RI VMA supported the change for rabies from 2 year to 3 year (yes, we did) three times and all three times it failed, before it finally passed. And we used to wonder on the exec board 'Who in heck is opposing this?' We ran into the same problem with mandatory continuing education for veterinarians. We kept arguing that it was embarrassing that we weren't required to have CE, and the state kept saying they didn't want the bother of enforcing it.

However all of this has nothing, as far as I know, and correct me if I am wrong, with your cat. If he has a severe, specific, idiosyncratic, medical problem that contraindicates vaccination then we are all with you, 100%. Certainly many of my clients bristle at having to vaccinate isolated indoor cats, understandably, but you could never enforce a law that you only have to vaccinate cats that go outside, or one that says something like 'You are required by law to get rabies vaccination, unless you don't want to, when you could get an exemption.'
This was the point of my post. If your argument is 1) every state needs medical waivers, and 2) on a totally unrelated note having nothing to do with exemptions, you refuse to vaccinate your cat, then fine, I understand that, but its a little confusing. -Dr. Mac
 
So, just a note here. Rabies is a direct exposure issue, correct? So the immunity status of my neighbors animals has zero bearing on my own animals. Just like your tetanus vaccine does me little good when I step on a rusty nail. So herd immunity is a good thing, but I don't think it's applicable to the rabies vaccine.

I personally would like to see a few things happen:

1. The Rabies challenge study to finish, and be successful, and start influencing legislation based on science, and not fear.
2. For states to accept rabies titers as proof of immunity (rather than assuming the shot caused an immunity). If Hawaii can find labs that they trust enough, so can we.

Then, we give the dogs one or two shots as young dogs, and we titer from then on. But you know, rationality...

I would like those things to happen too -- and soon!

My state (Illinois) recently approved a medical exemption to the rabies vaccine requirement, and several of my dogs qualify for it: my Sundance has had cancer, so he has a written exemption from our vet; and my Mike (rescue Lapphund) has chronic ehrlichia, so he has also has a written exemption from our vet.

Some of my other dogs do not have medical reasons to be exempt from the rabies vac requirement, but I titer for rabies annually and based on past vaccinations, all of my dogs have titers that are very, very much higher than the level deemed 'protective' by The Rabies Laboratory at Kansas State University. When circulating antibodies are already high, administering another vaccine will not increase those antibodies, so I do not booster in those circumstances.

I am not against vaccines, I am against OVER-VACCINATION and I have had serious health issues in past Shelties due to that. I want the county to acknowledge, as they would for a human vet-care worker, that my dogs who have titers of 45.0 when protective is >1.0 are effectively vaccinated against rabies!
 
I want the county to acknowledge, as they would for a human vet-care worker, that my dogs who have titers of 45.0 when protective is >1.0 are effectively vaccinated against rabies!

When I sent a dog to Hawaii, he had to have two Rabies shots, no less than 90 days apart (I think it was 90), and then you have to titer and wait 120 days after the titer. So, two different timelines. Nothing says we have to titer after the second shot, so we titered three weeks after the first shot. He passed. I don't know what the numbers were specifically, as they only report pass/fail, but even passing, he still had to have a second shot. He hasn't had another one, since he now resides in Hawaii.
 
When I sent a dog to Hawaii, he had to have two Rabies shots, no less than 90 days apart (I think it was 90), and then you have to titer and wait 120 days after the titer. So, two different timelines. Nothing says we have to titer after the second shot, so we titered three weeks after the first shot. He passed. I don't know what the numbers were specifically, as they only report pass/fail, but even passing, he still had to have a second shot. He hasn't had another one, since he now resides in Hawaii.

Hawaii is a rabies free state so there would be no need to revaccine him as there is no exposure risk.(I am sure you know this)

They only care the dog is vaccinated, has a titer(so it would be fighting off any current exposure), the booter insures this(likes person getting a serious of rabies shots after exposure) and that the dog appears rabies free within 10 days of travel. If you don't go though 4 months waiting period and titering they get to sit in quarantine for 6 months to ensure they are rabies free. Hawaii is really an apples to oranges comparsion for the rest of the US. The titer has nothing to do with protection from the disease and everything about making sure that animal doesn't show up rabid.
 
I should mention, I have no issue with excepting titers in place of vaccination. Except if the titer is high says at 3 yrs when should the next titer be? 3 yrs or less. When does immunity wane off. That is the question that needs to be discovered before alot of people will vote for using titers.
 
..but in the end, it's my decision and I am not telling you anyone else what to do, but I will make my own decisions regarding my pets. I don't want to discuss whether vaccines are this or that because in the end, we'll all make up our own decisions so why does it matter? .

But it does matter. It matters in pets as it does in humans. The classic example is the autism/vaccination brouhaha of several years ago. I'm sure you know that the study was very flawed, and completely debunked by rigorous definitive research. The researcher later recanted his statements, btw. Nevertheless, because of that idiot who announced a connection that did not exist, many many people chose to not vaccinate their children for measles, mumps, and pertussis. Kids are now getting these diseases in record numbers. If you don't think this matters, tell that to my friend whose three month old daughter died of pertussis. She was too young to be vaccinated, and her neighbors didn't vaccinate their children. Guess where my friend's infant got the pertussis? Your decisions DO impact other people. We do not live in isolation. Decisions we make can and do affect others. I am all for proving immunity with titers, and allowing the use of titers to substitute for repeated vaccinations. What's the point if you are already immune? But to not vaccinate? I can't imagine doing that to either my pets or my neighbors. BTW, my very first sheltie died at age 8 from distemper. She'd been vaccinated, but wasn't yet due for her booster. The neighbor dog was never vaccinated and had died of distemper weeks earlier and her owners didn't tell anyone. I never forgot that. I never WILL forget that. I vaccinate my animals.
 
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