What happens to puppies that doesn't get sold?

My first heart-dog, Honey, was 7 months old, house-trained, sweet, gentle, and happy. She was offered to me at a good price because her bite was off. She was a gorgeous dog whom the breeder had high hopes for. She was flown from Hawaii to Oregon because she was such a beautiful baby with championship bloodlines, but then her teeth got off. The breeder was a partner (dog show partner) with my grooming partner. Now, looking at it from a practical stand-point for the breeder, Honey was never going to be a show dog but could possibly have been used as a mom, but the breeder was so thrilled that he found someone to love Honey. THAT'S what the breeder wanted. Someone who was known, who was going to be devoted to her. The breeder had spent $$$ on this baby--buying her as a show potential and having her shipped from Hawaii, but the money didn't matter. Honey's well-being did. THAT'S the kind of breeder you want. Fifteen years later, I got a second dog from the same breeder. A four month old. I was happy to take an older puppy again. Jazz was a loving, happy, sweet laid-back dog.

The breeder I got my curent dog from, Ellie, keeps all her dogs until the right home comes along. She currently has six older puppies ranging from about 6 months to a year that she is still looking for homes for. Two of them are show potentials, four are not. They just need someone to love them and not care that they are older. While they are with Pam, they get loved on, hugged on, fed well, and play with, no matter how long they stay.

When I was looking for Ellie, I sent a email to the local Shetland SHeepdog club and gave them my bio and asked for a dog anywhere from a baby till 5 years. I was way more interested in personality than age. I had tremendous luck with older puppies, so I would have had not one bit of hesitation of taking one again. When Ellie crosses the Rainbow Bridge (which I hope is 14-15 years from now) we wil ask for a house-broken or older puppy or a youngish adult. So, there are definitely people out there who want them.
 
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One other thing I will just add, having read your latest post, is it sounds as you are trying to do everything right. You are looking around, you are prepared to wait and travel for the right puppy. You are looking for a breeder quite rightly who has done the health testing (and taken note of the results which is as important) etc. I'm sorry that none of the breeders you've contacted 'fit the bill 100%'.

However, not everyone is as thorough as you are being either. A great many people will look to buy a puppy from a local breeder and may not like the fact that the puppies are reared outside in kennels but if everything else is ok, then they compromise on that one issue. Others may be looking only for a bitch of a particular colour so they may be less concerned with registration papers. People looking for a show dog may focus on particular lines and this will override other factors. Then there are the great number of people that simply want a pet dog, easily and quickly. They may or may not know the guidelines but they see a litter advertised, visit and fall in love with the puppies and everything else goes out of the window.

There is a saying "one man's rubbish is another man's treasure" and this applies to dogs as much as anything else. So while Mrs X has her heart set on a sable bitch with folded ears and the full 'lassie' markings, Mr Y wants an agility dog and Miss Z wants a family pet and likes small pricked eared shelties. All of these puppies may be equally nicely bred and reared but each is going to suit a different person.

If you are finding it difficult to locate a breeder who ticks all the boxes, perhaps it might be worth ranking what are priorities for you and what elements are less important. For example, colour/gender could well be something to be flexible about, whereas major issues like health tests, good temprement etc are essential. Also be prepared to wait as well. A lot of good breeders have a waiting list.

Tofu pup - it's the same here in the UK and a topical subject, how to regain the trust and perception the general public has of breeders. It's a great post but your last sentence is particuarly spot on, yes we are rather like our dogs!!:biggrin2:
 
@Silaria,

Yes I already have contacted CISSC months ago. That was the first place I contacted.

Most breeders I got referred to from that organization, has no puppies for sale, nor planned until next year. Among the list, there was a breeder who told me, the waiting list is 3 years and cost is $2000. If the description of "good breeder" is someone like this, then I don't know what to think.
 
jasonsjwou said:
One of the breeder (had AKC breeder of merit banner on his website) whom I've been in contact with, when asked how much his puppy would cost, answered me;

"I can't tell you yet. If they turn out to be a show dog quality, then it'll be $1800. If they are not, then it'll be $1000 for female, $900 for male for a companion dog on non-breeding agreement"

For someone who's a total beginner to hear this... what do you think he/she would react? This is not a business?

You may not like to hear this, but dog breeding is a "business". When a litter of pup can bring in thousands of dollars, what else can you call that? I would have to work for months to bring home that kind of money. Ok May be not the kind of "greedy business" of wall street which got us to where we are, but nevertheless, it is.
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Hate to say it, but those are fairly standard prices for a Sheltie puppy. I'm not sure why he even mentioned the price for a show-quality puppy, as that's not what you seem to be in the market for, but that's ok.

I suppose we're going to have to agree to disagree. A litter of puppies may "bring in thousands of dollars", but it simultaneously eats up all that income, particularly if the breeder is also caring for a numebr of dogs of different ages, doing health checks, taking mama and puppies to the vet, going to dog shows to "test" her breeding stock, etc. Curiously, intelligent as my mother is, her thousands-of-dollars-per-litter dog-breeding "business" has yet to turn a profit! Perhaps I ought to help her check her books.

I wish you the best of luck in finding a breeder and a puppy who meet your standards.
 
jasonsjwou said:
If the Dam and/or Sire is NOT on OFFA.ORG, and the breeder is telling me that the dogs have been cleared of genetic defects, what should I do??
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You can either be passive aggressive: "maybe I'm not looking it up right, but I can't seem to find your dogs on the OFA website"

or... be a bit more blunt.

"Why aren't your dogs OFA listed?"

Not only are you buying the puppy, but you are buying the breeder as well. Some breeders are great, they send birthday presents (hint) but otherwise are not all up in your space about your puppy. Some breeders (like some people) are nuts. They want co-ownerships, and all kinds of strangeness. So you really have to gauge the person AND the dog.
 
As tofu pup has already said, it is easy to look at the 'selling' price and assume this is all money in the pocket of the breeder, but it is no more true than any 'product' (sorry, I don't like using that for dogs) is pure profit for the 'retailer'. Please take into account that the breeder has in all liklihood already forked out considerable sums in the rearing of the puppies, medication such as womers etc, additional heating costs, maybe time off work and stud fees, not to mention fuel costs.

I would be wary of anyone who was selling puppies substantially cheaper than the accepted price - just why are they so cheap? Also, the fact that the breeders have nothing currently available is a sign of a GOOD breeder. One who is consistantly churning out puppies and usually has something for sale is like the ones I described earlier, selling dogs is more important than having a well thought out breeding plan. Many of the breeders I know breed at most once every two years, as they want to have something hopefully to keep back for themselves and they want to concentrate on each puppy, not have half a dozen running around at once. They only have a few bitches and these only have two or three litters in their lifetime, which is why I said be prepared to wait for the right puppy.

If the breeder has a three year waiting list and can charge high prices for their puppies, there is a good reason why everyone wants one and is prepared to pay over the odds for it.
 
jasonsjwou said:
Before y'all say to me "you must have your life full of lies, why you being so suspicious etc" I hope you kinda get where I'm coming from. I'm genuinely asking this question, out of pure good will and care for the dogs.

Initially, I was open for a rescue adoption. At one stage I seriously considered adopting a retired racing greyhound. (I was serious enough to go to three local meet-and-greets). Then realized the breed wasn't for my family. I then went to two Sheltie rescue meetings. Went to two local animal shelters. Filled out applications, and had home visits.

Then a friend of mine (who is a professional police dog trainer), told me that I should get a puppy, as young as possible (not younger than 7-8wks of course) because you want to "fill" that puppy with all the good stuff (well I wouldn't even know how to do that because I'm a serious newbie), etc etc etc. Rescue is a noble thing to do but there is a chance that I'll inherit someone else's problem. (Yes I agree many dogs end up in shelter for no fault on their own, but YES there are dogs in the shelter that someone couldn't live with) This is where I said "Ok then, I'll look for a puppy".

So I joined this group, asked many questions.. I contacted so many breeders I can't even count. I read "how to pick your puppy" that's a sticky on just about every forum that I've been to.

They all tell me I should ask the breeder for this paper, that paper, this proof that proof, written guarantee on health, genetics, and testing result on Hip eye vwd thyroid etc, along with AKC UKC CKC registration/etc whatever. They say "a responsible breeder would do 1. _________, 2___________, 3___________ etc. I am in contact with 12 different breeders in 350 mile radius, they all sound genuine yet not all of them fits the bill 100%. This forum prohibits people to ask for a reference on a specific breeder too. I'm finding it's very, very hard to find the good puppy! Harder it gets, I just can't help myself but to ask the question:


"Then what happens to the puppies who doesn't fit this bill?????"



Well. I can guarantee this : I am not going to be the last person who'll ask this question.

If all puppies find good homes at the end, then great. I am truly, really, honestly happy.
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You asked a very good question, Jason, and I can't fault it one bit. It IS hard to find that first Sheltie. I got really lucky and found a spectacular breeder, but depending on where you live, it can be a challenge. If a Sheltie doesn't pass all those tests, or if it's not show quality, it's sold on a spay/neuter contract. But that doesn't mean it's not a wonderful Sheltie -- just that it shouldn't be bred. My Bitsy Boodle was certified OK on every Sheltie health test known to man, and her hips are poor. Not anyone's fault; she just came out with wonky hips at about age one.

No breeder will fit the "dream list" because every one is different. I recommend you find someone who had bred some champions successfully, is pleasant and open to your questions, and with whom you can build rapport. Then work with them. My breeder has provoded me with three -- one at age 8.5 weeks, and two at 3 mos. I wouldn't hesitate to take one from her at 5 years -- because I really trust her.

I also know that if I ever breed, I will have to be ready to keep for their lifetime every single puppy that is born -- or to take them back if the situation warrants. That's the deal!

Keep asking the tough questions!!! And good luck finding that speacial Sheltie! :yes:
 
hmmm well where to begin...well lets see. My puppy I didnt sell from my last litter is still her with me, and at this point he will probably remain here for the rest of his life. I ended up holding onto him because he was the smallest of the litter and no matter how many interested people I had not one seem to fit the bill for him or his personality of what I was looking for him, which is fine with me.

I think this is why you see people who are responsible breeders having fewer litters, they are thinking ahead of what if I dont sell all of my puppies, If I dont sell one puppy from from each and have say 5 litters a year thats 5 puppies ontop of my current herd to support each year, average hobby breeders can not do this, it does not make sense, either financially or space wise or for the betterment of the dog. So you are seeing the majority of hobby breeders having 1-3 litters a year on average.

As far as this being a business I had to giggle, if this is a business I am the WORST business person in the world than!!!! :lol: I am soo far in the negative between food, vet bills, showing, traveling..etc...heck I should run for gov't with the deficit I run with the dogs id fit right in Washington!!:lol:
 
I don't think that a rescue or shelter should be totally ruled out. I adopted Chase when he was 14 weeks old. He was still tiny and had puppy fluff. He had a story, not baggage. He had positive experiences, just like every other puppy would have with a responsible owner, and was socialized and is an amazing dog. He is extremely loving towards people and other animals. You can buy a puppy at 8 weeks or adopt one at 11 months but the difference in the puppy is whether or not you are willing to put in the time to make that puppy socialized and loving.
 
I held onto one of my puppies until he was almost 6 months old was thinking of keeping him but he turned out to be not what I needed for show. He has a very intense personality and not just anyone could have handled him. I was prepared to keep as long(forever) as was needed to find him the right home. I finally did and the lady that took him wanted an older puppy but one she could do obedience with-a match made in heaven. I turned down 3 people for him

When I bred the litter I did it with the thought that every puppy might be here forever. Anyone who breeds and doesn't feel the same shouldn't be breeding. IMHO
 
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