Article on De-barking

On the question of disarming...I'd use a muzzle (Clancy calls them party hats):eek2:

I've had to put one on him a few times..he gets stressed? bitchy? I don't know what else to call it..with other dogs..if he's amped up, tired,...??just feels like it? Plus in Austria they have to be muzzled to ride the trains...so I just started carrying it with me. It actually calms him down with it on...

Julie
Clancy & Abby
 
All of our Shelties have been partially debarked when we got them. All were done by the breeder(s) as puppies. It has never seem to be an issue for them as they all still barked some louder than others. Bailey still has a decent bark but obviously not as loud as a Sheltie that hasn't been done.

On the other hand Panda has not been debarked and for a little Hav-a-Sheltie her bark is quite loud and piercing when very excited. It was our choice not to get her partially debarked as we didn't think her bark would be that loud nor did we really know how painful it might be for her.

In hindsight that may have been a mistake. Fortunately neither one bark a lot out in the yard though Bailey will if she hears another dog or something is disturbing to her. As it is right now Panda just hides behind mom and lets mom do the warnings to others when she is outside.

Our houses are very close together and even for us as dog lovers we too can get annoyed when dogs bark continuously such as the Lab that was 3 doors down from us for several years. It can after time ruin your outdoors time and even be annoying in your house when they bark for hours.

If it ever became an issue of losing Panda because of her bark it would be something we would have to very seriously look at doing as I am sure giving her away would be more stressfull and painful to her than being debarked.
 
And now this is just my opinion......

Comparing disarming to debarking...in my opinion is like comparing getting surgery on my dog and my kid. Not comparable. Period. Plus...when you start to tread these waters, you make it very personal, and that is where people start to get defensive.

I rather like to stick to the topic at hand, instead of using analogies of comparing apples to oranges.

Maybe for those of us that do not see debarking as that terrible of an option...those of you that are flat out against it can give us the factual reasons you are against it, instead of using analogies.

I like facts....and am always open to a discussion.
 
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Here is a follow-up to the NYT article yesterday...I think its a wonderful response.
Here is the site for the NYT Blog also
http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/02/04/answers-about-canina-devocalization

Answers About Canine Devocalization
By THE NEW YORK TIMES


The term “devocalization” is misleading, because the procedure does not render the animal voiceless, muted or silent. The correct term used in veterinary surgical texts is ventriculocordectomy. These days, not many veterinarians know how to perform the procedure because it is not commonly taught in veterinary schools. More emphasis is placed on behavioral modification, rather than medical procedures, to correct problem barking.

When ventriculocodectomy is correctly performed, there is about a 50 percent reduction in volume and a lower pitch to the bark. There are two types of ventriculocordectomy procedures: the laryngotomy technique and the oral technique. I have never performed the laryngotomy technique and in my professional opinion this technique should not be performed on any animal under any circumstances because it can cause serious side effects. The oral technique is the procedure most commonly requested and performed by veterinarians.

Laryngotomy technique

This technique involves making a two-inch incision on the skin of the neck, above the dog’s larynx, separating the muscles, cauterizing blood vessels, entering the larynx, removing all of the dog’s vocal fold tissue and stitching the incision back together. This technique is invasive, painful, requires gas anesthesia and has a prolonged recovery time. There can be serious postoperative complications, including seroma formation, delayed healing and tissue damage. Scarring can be so extensive that the dog can have difficulty breathing for the rest of its life.

Oral technique

This bark softening procedure is noninvasive and takes one to two minutes to perform, using a very short-acting injectable anesthetic. In this technique, the dog’s mouth is opened and a very small piece of tissue is taken from one or both vocal folds, using a slender biopsy instrument. When correctly done, there is little to no bleeding or discomfort. Pain killers (analgesia) should always be given, however, as a precaution. Recovery takes place within a few minutes and the dog is able to eat and drink immediately. There is no change in the dog’s behavior or attitude. The dog can and does continue to bark, but the bark is roughly half as loud as it was before the procedure. There is no way to predict or control the volume of the bark and the bark may have a raspy sound. Results vary among dogs and are usually permanent, although in some cases dogs may eventually regain full volume of their bark.

Does debarking affect the dog’s mood, i.e., is the dog unhappy or depressed? The debarkers seem to think the dog is fine, but of course they are biased. I would like to see a survey of vets. If the dogs are fine with a quieter bark (perhaps just the act of barking and not the volume is, perhaps, what “scratches the itch”) and if the surgery is not painful, then I don’t see the big deal.

— Posted by Chris

I do not know of any peer-reviewed, published scientific studies that objectively measure changes in dogs’ moods, before or after any medical or surgical procedure. However, dogs show no change from their previous behaviors, personalities and attitudes after they have had a bark softening procedure. They also continue to bark as much as they did previously and their owners can still hear them.

Evaluating a dog’s mood and happiness is a subjective assessment, but it’s easy to tell a happy dog from an unhappy one. Of course, the best people to evaluate a dog’s mood are their owners.

Is there anything the human owners of dogs that bark could be doing differently to minimize the need for this surgery? To me it seems very cruel and terrible to subject a dog to radical surgery just because she or he barks.

Are barky dogs signaling boredom, or anxiety or fear? Couldn’t barking behavior be remedied by nonsurgical means, such as gradual desensitization to stimuli, behavior modification or simply providing adequate exercise and enrichment?

— Posted by System Mr Emmy (retired)

You are correct. Dogs bark for many reasons, including excitement, playfulness, warning, fear, separation anxiety and loneliness. There are many things dog owners can do to prevent barking problems. First, they should keep in mind the fact that dogs bark and make noise. So if they don’t want a potentially noisy animal, a dog is not the right pet for them. Dogs want attention. People who are away from home for long periods of time, or who are too busy to care for a dog and give it the attention it needs, shouldn’t have a dog. Next, people should always do their homework first and learn about the breed that interests them before acquiring a dog. Some breeds tend to bark more than others, or have louder or shriller voices. If a barking dog is not compatible with the person’s tolerance level, lifestyle or living arrangement, then the person should consider a different pet. Most important, people must understand from the onset that dogs require a lot of time, training, socialization and play activities, starting from when they are puppies and continuing throughout their lives. Barking problems are often the result of a lack of one or more of these necessities.

Among the many options that may be pursued to manage excessive barking problems are social enrichment, training classes and behavior modification methods. These require time and dedication. Many dog trainers offer these services, as do veterinarians specializing in animal behavior. The success or failure of behavior modification techniques varies among individual animals, trainers, behavioral counselors and the dedication of the owner.

As with any behavior problem, prevention is much easier than correction or modification.
About shock collars: many people purchase shock collars from pet stores to try to stop their dogs from barking. Shock collars are inhumane. Dogs can develop severe burns on their necks from shock collars. The dog may learn to be silent while wearing the cumbersome collar, but resumes barking when the collar is removed.

Not one of the commentators would argue against spaying and neutering. This could be construed as an elective surgery that inflicts pain upon our pets. Why then, is debarking touching such a sore spot?

— Posted by TL

Cont to post 2...
 
Some of the emotional controversy may be due to the fact that most people do not know or understand the details of these surgeries, what they entail, their risks and their side effects. Another factor is how these procedures are perceived and public opinion is formed.

You are correct that spaying and neutering, like bark softening, are elective procedures. However, they are very different procedures with different objectives and consequences. Spaying and neutering are procedures promoted primarily to prevent unwanted pregnancies in animals. They are invasive procedures that involve removing reproductive organs. In the female dog the procedure is considered “major surgery” because the abdomen is opened to perform an ovariohysterectomy (remove uterus and ovaries). In the male, the testicles are removed. Tissues and blood vessels are cut, ligated, cauterized and stitched. Intravenous catheters and fluids and antibiotics may be required. The procedures are painful, so they require a general gas anesthesia, pain killers and recovery time.

Although problems seldom occur, spays and neuters carry the risks associated with longer anesthesia time and the risks of surgical complications, such as infection, hemorrhage, cardiac arrest and death. Spay and neuter procedures may have long-term side-effects later in life, such as urinary incontinence, cancer and hormonal imbalances.

Several thousands of dogs are spayed or neutered annually, and the vast majority recover quickly from the procedure and do very well throughout life. The procedures are promoted and performed routinely in veterinary practices (including mine) and animal shelters. Public opinion is that spay and neuter is something responsible pet owners should do. The procedures are so widely accepted that some states and localities are legislating mandatory spay and neuter for pets.

Bark softening (by oral technique) differs from spay and neuter procedures in that it is noninvasive, takes about two minutes to perform and uses a short-acting injectable anesthetic that lasts about five to seven minutes. If done correctly, it has no side effects except that the dog has a quieter bark.

As president of NYC dog, I am concerned that this article will instigate a rash of dog owners to seek debarking in lieu of behavior modification.

— Posted by Bob Marino - NYC dog

It is my sincere hope that this article will increase public awareness of the importance of providing a dog with early training and socialization and behavioral modification. I believe that most dog owners love their dogs and are just as reluctant as their veterinarians are to subject their pets to any kind of procedure, unless they are desperate and think they have no other alternatives.

The American Veterinary Medical Association has policies and guidelines on animal welfare that veterinarians respect and follow. After a thorough review of the humane aspects of each issue by a panel of leading experts in the field, the AVMA publishes its animal welfare position statements on each topic.

The association’s position statement on devocalization is:
“Canine devocalization should only be performed by qualified, licensed veterinarians as a final alternative after behavioral modification efforts to correct excessive vocalization have failed.”

Although there are many types of behavioral modification, success varies. I worked in a large animal shelter and witnessed firsthand the shocking number of dogs that were abandoned because of their barking. Bark softening is not a procedure of convenience. It is reserved for cases in which behavioral modification efforts have failed. These sad cases do exist, in greater numbers than many would care to acknowledge, and for a wide variety of reasons. For these cases, bark softening can be a last resort, noninvasive, quick and relatively safe technique to help keep the dog and its owner together and prevent the owner from having to relinquish a beloved pet.
 
This is a controversial subject with no right and no wrong, no black and no white. And I thank everyone on the forum for being respectful of each other. It's an important question, and I'm so proud of everyone here, that we are dealing with it with mature and open discussion.

I tend to think that I would try just about ANYTHING for any condition my pet had before I resorted to surgery. But if some kind of surgery was required to save my dog's life, then I would do it. That is assuming that I had a well-socialized and functioning dog to begin with.

Suppose you had a dog, like my parents, that was hit by a car. They could have just let the dog die of septic, or amputate the dog's leg. They amputated the leg. The dog lived a healthy and happy life to age 14. The loss of leg made no difference to the dog. She was still the same dog, just moved a little more ackwardly.

If my dog had a tumour, and had a high likelyhood of surviving and live on for a good a healthy life, would I undertake surgery? You bet. But if the surgery would only prolong the life of the dog for another few months, then no. I would not.

Disarming a dog? No! These are dogs that are aggressive and will remain aggressive. Removing their teeth does not remove that aggressiveness. That behaviour will remain, and they will forever live a life of frustration, albeit without harming anyone drastically.

Declawing a cat? Yes, I did it both of mine. It's about as obtrusive a surgery as you can get, yet mostly widely accepted. Would I do it again, yes, I would, but this time, I would try to train rather than just jump to the automatic surgery, as I did before. Finally, I declawed because my property was being damaged. In one situation, my cat tore open the screen from the upstairs window with her claws and jumped!!!! That's when she was declawed.

Debark? Indy is debarked. He came to me that way. It must have had the "oral" version, because you'd never know that he was debarked. I can only imagine what he sounded like BEFORE! Would I debark a dog myself? Only if it came down to an issue of animal by-law. I have dogs, and I accept that dogs bark. It's annoying but does no real harm (except to my nerves, sometimes! :winkgrin:). But if I had the bylaw people on my door because of it, then yes I would do it.

Neuter/Spay - Yes. This just leads to a far happier household all around. And no, don't even try to compare it to children.

Which leads me to my final comment. And this is maybe the most controversial here. I love my dogs. They have given me a new lease on life with the death of daughter. But they are not human and they will never replace human companionship. I think there is a tendency to humanize our dogs beyond all boundaries. Humans and dogs DO belong together. That's a proven scientific fact. But to apply human principles to an animal just goes against all nature.

Well, I guess I've babbled enough for now.
 
Perfectly written Barb! I have to agree with almost everything u said. Im not a cat person, so i cant form an opinion on declawing, but i agree with everything else.
 
I am finding all the info everyone is posting fascinating - keep it coming.

I was against debarking until my Kimba was killed, it completely changed my perspective. So I do get why people disagree with it, its just now I see that its a necessity in some circumstances. It is still a huge decision and I would try anything not to debark Deska. It would only be a matter of last resort.

Barb, I agree dogs cannot replace humans and are not human. I seek out human companionship away from my dogs because it isnt the same. But I would do anything for the pups because they are such an important and integral part of my life that I couldnt imagine not having them. Admitedly I am way too empathic sometimes and tend to put myself in my dogs' paws rather than the dogs in human paws.

Lightplum - thankyou for the info on the different types of debarking, esp the on the different techniques. I had a couple of people recommend the laryngotomy one.

Julie - how do you keep the muzzles on the dogs, is there a particular way to put them on or a particular type you use? Deska has his off in less than a minute, he actually gets great pleasure in getting it off and then running around the yard barking and spinning (and running away from me).
 
But they are not human and they will never replace human companionship. [/B][/I]

You are right - controversial and I disagree with you on this one. I do NOT seek out human companionship over my dogs and always prefer the companionship of my dogs over any human being. In fact, my next house will be on a few acres, so I do not have to deal with neighbours. I do not find many endeering qualities in most humans, so it does not bother me to not seek out their company.
 
Which leads me to my final comment. And this is maybe the most controversial here. I love my dogs. They have given me a new lease on life with the death of daughter. But they are not human and they will never replace human companionship. I think there is a tendency to humanize our dogs beyond all boundaries. Humans and dogs DO belong together. That's a proven scientific fact. But to apply human principles to an animal just goes against all nature.

.
First of all im sorry to hear about the death of your daughter. I CAN NOT imagine what that is like and sincerely wish that you didnt have to either. (the statements below are not meant for you personally). I will remember you in my prayers tonite and everynite.GOD BLESS YOU for what you are going thru.



AS for my pup.. I dont see Snickers as "replacing" anyone in my family. As a lot of you know my dog Angel died in oct and my Mom in dec. I dont see Snickers as a replacement for either of them. As for the human/dog comparison... Snickers is not literally my son(obviously) .. i would not treat him any different than if i had a son as far as food.....love .. whatever.. I want what is best for anyone in my family and as i have previously stated all I have left is a brother and my pup. ( and a few aunts). I will probable never have children .. soo I will give Snickers the best life has to offer that is in my means. He comes first. If he needs shots and I need food ,,,. he will get his shots. (im not broke..im not looking for pity) but unemployment has its limits and I am still dealing with the death of my mom and dog sooo sometimes i dont even wanna get out of bed ...let alone look for a job.

Today I went and bought him a 30lb bag of FROMM it was 45 bucks(well 40 FROMM coupon) .. and then bought myself some groceries (15 bucks) and I am fine with that ,,, in fact i am more than fine with that... it is the right thing to do (in my opinion)... I chose to give him a good home.. and I will sacrifice things in order to do that. My mom sacrificed all her life for me and my bro. (in my opinion... thats part of what love is.) yeah Snickers is a dog .... so what .. i love him and he loves me unconditionally. ( how many of you/us can say that about a human).

SO to the people here with human children ... I am not trying to compare my pup with your child .... but my pup is all i have..he depends on me and I wont let him down. ( call me crazy. if you chose ..maybe i am). He may very well be the closest thing I have to a child and when he goes to the Bridge I want him going knowing that I did all I could for him and gave him all I could.

On a side note : if you love someone tell them everyday... because you never know if that day will be the last day.)
 
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