Bacca bit me!!!!!

[KarenCurtis]

Great advice, Michele

I think my being away, even for for only 1 week is the issue.

My housesitter is wonderful, but she does not know how to control the dogs. Seems like they lost their pack leader while I was away and reinvented themselves while I was gone.

I should have told my housesitter that the boys have to sit and stay before they get their food, for example. It's as if the monkeys took charge of the zoo while I was gone.

.

I think this is part of why it happened! However, just because you forgot to tell the housesitter doesn't mean you are to blame, you just forgot.

 

[labgirl]

Barb, I have a vague recollection that you posted about having problems with the boys this time last year and you felt it was because they were stuck in - I think Indy was biting Bacca?

I really feel you need to see a trainer/behaviourist as there have been a number of little things that have built up over time.

I know I always say 'go to a behaviourist' but that's because it is very difficult to diagnose a problem over the internet. Without being able to see Bacca, how he interacts with you, with Indy, with David and a lot of other things it is near on impossible to give accurate and beneficial advice.

You need someone on the spot who can watch and pick up on the subtle things Bacca is doing. They may even notice something you have not.

I think seeing a behaviourist and then getting into some classes (obedience or something) to build a strong bond with the boys individually would be the best way to go.

And to add my two penny worth on Mr Milan - stay clear, his methods are making ticking time bombs out of the dogs he works with. Find someone who only uses positive methods and see what they say.

Good luck with getting this sorted

 

[Bellesmom]

I think alot of things could play a part in the "why" for the sudden change of behavior.

1-recent move
2-cabin fever
3-lack of excersise
4-food issues
You may not want to hear it,but I think there is a slight food agression issue with either one or both of those sweet faced boys.There are diet issues with one or both correct?

Although none of the above is good reason to bite the hand that feeds you,but I would lean towards the impulsed momment you were scraping dishes,(food) and the intense desire to snap it up before it went to the bin. Although usually mild mannered,it was "the moment" and the desire to get a scrap of food. I'm not saying he is starved by any means,but I think he was testing you.And the hand pushing him away,obviously he did not like.

I don't know what I would have done.The only one here I would remotely have an issue with would be Earnhardt.I have had close calls with him before,and it usually is while I am playing,but he tends to at times get rough. But he knows better to bite me to the point of breaking skin.That's a deal breaker in my book.And that may seem harsh,but I don't put up with nonesense with him,nor would I with any dog. I dare say,that in that moment,he would have found his big @ss on the ground,if he were to bite me or anyone.And it would only happen once,that's it,no second chances.But that's me.And he is not a sheltie.

I don't know Barb.What did he do after the fact? How did he act? Did he know he did wrong,or did he proceed to come back for a second chance nibble of scraps? I think I would chalk it up to him testing you,and possibly a bit of boredom,I know its not acceptable behavior,but I don't think really he meant to bite & hurt you.I think he was geneuninely going after the food.

I do hope you are ok. I think I would teach him a boundry,when you are clearing dishes,he needs to be in the adjacent room,as an onlooker till he knows his P&Q'S

I'm curious to know..how many of us dog owners actually do teach thier pups,manners while eating? Do you or have you (I'm speaking to the forum as a whole) teach thier pups at a very early age,it's ok for you to sit,handle,play with thier food while they eat?

I know I can honestly say,I can sit next to each one of these dogs,while they are eating,I can take thier dishes,and move them,I can put my hands in thier bowls,and touch thier food without growls,grumbles,or any issue. I feel it is extremely important that each dog is taught this.As one never knows who or what may come in contact with your dog while eating. I have even had Bumper come along an try to get nibbles out of Earnhardt's dish,or the shelties,and no repercussions.

I got Belle when she had just turned 1 year, but from the first she has been used to my handling her food bowl, handling her food, and taking the bowl away. I can take a bone away from her with no problem.. I do make her sit before I give her a bowl of food, and now I don't have to give a signal, she automatically sits and waits for it.

 

[Bellesmom]

Barb, I have a vague recollection that you posted about having problems with the boys this time last year and you felt it was because they were stuck in - I think Indy was biting Bacca?

I really feel you need to see a trainer/behaviourist as there have been a number of little things that have built up over time.

I know I always say 'go to a behaviourist' but that's because it is very difficult to diagnose a problem over the internet. Without being able to see Bacca, how he interacts with you, with Indy, with David and a lot of other things it is near on impossible to give accurate and beneficial advice.

You need someone on the spot who can watch and pick up on the subtle things Bacca is doing. They may even notice something you have not.

I think seeing a behaviourist and then getting into some classes (obedience or something) to build a strong bond with the boys individually would be the best way to go.

And to add my two penny worth on Mr Milan - stay clear, his methods are making ticking time bombs out of the dogs he works with. Find someone who only uses positive methods and see what they say.

Good luck with getting this sorted

have to agree about CM, he is making a lot of money but not really fixing any problems.. I find him way too rough.

 

[seashel]

Could be worth having a quick vet check to make sure there is not an medical issue which could be to blame?

 

[KarenCurtis]

And to add my two penny worth on Mr Milan - stay clear, his methods are making ticking time bombs out of the dogs he works with. Find someone who only uses positive methods and see what they say.

Good luck with getting this sorted

This is an opinion, and some of us have different ones- I respectfully disagree with you and Bellesmom.

 

[Katherine]

My first reaction to your description is resource guarding as well. I still feel that way, however the more I think about it, the more concerned I am, given the “bite” issue. The bite puts things in a more serious category.

It just seems odd that Bacca went from being a peaceable soul to biting you without any prior incidents or warning. If this is the case, then I agree that a vet discussion might be worthwhile. If resource guarding has been a problem and is worsening, then I think that behavioral help certainly would be worthwhile.

My “go to” internet source for training issues, Pat Miller, has a pretty detailed article on resource guarding and the management thereof:

http://www.peaceablepaws.com/articl...82176138&archive=&start_from=&ucat=1&type=Pat

I'm very empathetic as both of my dogs have resource guarding issues as well.

 

[Toffee's Mom]

This is an opinion, and some of us have different ones- I respectfully disagree with you and Bellesmom.

and you forgot that you disagree with me!
lol
I know, it goes without saying when it comes to our favourite topic to heartily disagree on hahahaha

but seriously, I remember that the boys always had issues around feeding time, from what I remember and it seems to be escalating, so i compltely agree with Sophie on this one...
I hope it gets better soon, Barb!

 

[BarbV]

Well, we did some training today. Today, I cleaned out the fridge and had the garbage can open while I dumped old food into it. I was apprehensive at first as to how Bacca would react. He sniffed at it but backed away when I told him to. I guess I MUST have disciplined him more than I thought when he bit me the other night.

We'll see how the next few days go.

As a test, I gave the boys each a rawhide bone a few minutes ago. Bacca is not so keen on them. He only seems to want one if Indy has one.

So I gave them both there bone and came back to the computer. Then both boys showed up at the door to go outside. Indy, the little sneak had BOTH bones clenched in his mouth!

I made him drop them. Bacca grabbed his and went outside with it. Indy followed suit. Both the bones were forgotten and the boys are playing in the snow, and chasing each other....nicely. And now I notice that each has found a corner of the yard is chewing on their bone.

I'm not into behaviourists except in extreme cases and I don't think my dogs are in that category yet. Neither to I condone everything that Caesar preaches, but there are a few techniques that I do support. I do believe in creating myself as pack leader. And I do believe that some physical dominance is require to establish that. While I don't believe in throwing the dog on the floor in a submissive state, I do believe in the push back.

In hindsight, I did use my hand the other night when I pushed him away from the garbage. Next time, as I did today, I will use my whole body...and not the most vulnerable part.

I do think that my being away, even for a week, upset the equilibrium. I think the monkey's took over the zoo. I will have to work with both my housekeeper and my son to teach them a little training 101.

 

[corbinam]

I would recommend (if you feel comfortable) working with the boys when they have things they like. Our two have never shown any kind of dominance or resource guarding, but every once in a while I remind them that I'm in charge of the food.

If they have a bone, I'll take it away, ask for a behavior, then give it back. Or, when they're eating dinner, I'll put my hand in the bowl, or make them sit and then release them to the food again.

Those are great training opportunities if your boys like to eat/chew.