Breeding Questions

I know that I am always pleased to hear from folks that are part of my extended family through sheltie connections!

As my grandfather would say...if you don't ask, the answer is "no." Doesn't hurt to contact them and ask about the history/lineage of your pup. Probably the worst that would happen is they'd ignore you...the best outcome is that you'd learn of a nearby person with similar interests that could mentor you!
 
I think that Sunny could do very well in agility, definitely!

However, if you're thinking about breeding her, her pedigree is very informative. The pedigree helps to give us a rough genetic picture of what's behind a dog - not just what your dog, today, is like, but what's been passed down to her, and what she might pass down to her puppies.

Yes, there is one titled dog in this pedigree. However, that's only one dog - and he's in the third generation, far removed, relatively speaking, from your dog.

Yes, you can have great dogs that never compete and are never titled. However, titles (or lack thereof) tell us a lot about the dogs and what they might have been like: a dog with lots of titles (I'm thinking performance here) is a dog who was owned by someone who took the time and energy to train the dog and compete with him, to test him, to prove his mettle. A dog with lots of titles is a dog who had the intelligence, athleticism, obedience, and drive to get the job done. A pedigree that has multiple dogs with titles is a pedigree that is likely to have produced a dog who will be able to produce quality puppies.

But titles don't tell the whole story. When you look at a pedigree, you should be finding dogs - or at least kennel names - that are recognizable. You should be able to see the rhyme and reason of why breedings were done: this family joined to that family, this line bred back upon, that that trait bred away from. You should be able to call up a mental picture of what the "heavy hitters" in the pedigree looked like. This is part of why education about the breed is vital if you want to produce quality animals: every dog exists in a genetic context, as part of a larger lineage, and you need to be able to look at the pedigree and understand what's in it. The pedigree is not just a collection of names, it's a record of what went into the making of your dog.

Here's a great example of a fantastic performance pedigree (chosen at random from the website of a breeder known for performance and conformation Shelties). There are lots of titles here, and not just conformation titles. Heck, the performance titles include agility, obedience, and herding - these are some accomplished dogs! There are also three ROM producers (dogs who have produced a certain number of conformation champions) and a specialty Best in Show winner. The dogs in this pedigree have (assuming health clearances) earned the right to perpetuate their genes. What's more, the kennel names and the dogs that dominate this pedigree are highly recognizable and respected - I know who these dogs are, I've seen them in the flesh, and I know their breeders for having produced excellent dogs. If I were thinking of buying one of these puppies, I could picture in my mind what they would look like, what their potential faults and virtues might be, and what dogs I might breed them to in order to take the next step in the lineage.
 
The only thing about that is I dont see where any other names match up...like his sire and dam arent listed on the pedigree you typed....which is a little odd......

There's a photo of the pedigree in her picture album where you can get a better view of how it all fits together.
 
Thank you for all of your help!

I never realized a dog could have so many titles.

BTW, I contacted the owners of Sunny's great Grandsire. Hopefully they can help me and maybe even be my mentors.

Thanks guys.
 
That's great about contacting Sunny's Great grandsires breeder. Most breeders are more than willing to help mentor you.

BTW: I may get my head knocked off for the following, but here goes. I very much believe that breeding quality/conformation quality are one in the same. If a dog is not conformationly correct to at least win sometimes in the show ring they should not be bred. A quote from the American Kennel Club "Dog shows (conformation events) are intended to evaluate breeding stock." As a breeder personally, this is my pet peeve. If I see someone breeding two dogs together just because they are purebred, unaltered and possibly have a nice attitude. It breaks my heart. It really does. I've been through this professionally long enough to know how it feels to buy a puppy and turn around and place it because it just isn't right. And, what I'm personally trying to say is... it takes years and years of breeding and culling out in order to get the desired look for your breed. And, seeing a lot of people that are either irresponsible, or just flat don't know better ruining possibly a line that has taken years for someone to build up just breaks you. Now I've seen some breeds that I can possibly have to say differently, but a sheltie that has decent conformation, sound mind and body, is going to do good in any venue you put him in. "period" That being said no sheltie in the world is perfect. But, we all try are best to achieve as close to that goal that is absolutely possible.
Even breeding a CH to a CH will still in most cases produce "pets," but generally these pets are closer to the breed standard that you can find out there in your local newspapers... healthier and come with a background, so you know what you are getting into.
 
That's great about contacting Sunny's Great grandsires breeder. Most breeders are more than willing to help mentor you.

BTW: I may get my head knocked off for the following, but here goes.

Why would you think that you would get your head "knocked off" for believing in something that you have a great deal of experience in?

I came onto this forum for advice and you are giving me just what I asked for. Do not fear that I am going to get angry at the truth.
I hope that I can breed Sunny, but if she doesn't qualify even after I run her in agility, I still will have more time to learn about the breed and have experience under my belt.
I may not get to breed Sunny, but I have fallen in love with this breed enough to say I want to be involved with them for the rest of my life (which has just begun I am 21).

I plan on breeding eventually and helping more people learn about this wonderful breed of dog. Sunny is my enlightenment and my inspiration to maybe one day have even an ounce of experience that lots of you have.

So, do not worry about me getting angry or unhappy. We are all grown ups and I can take constructive criticism. :wink2:

Amanda
 
SheltieLuver,

No head knocking here!

Like you, I believe in breeding true to the standard, not just because you've got yourself a cute purebred. It takes years of training, mentoring and research....and then finally finding the "right" pup to start your line, and breeding with another pup that together has a chance to breed some fantastic dogs.

And while some folk here have pointed out that a dog that would not be good for conformation but may be great in agility or obediance, I say hogwash! A standard is there for a reason. You could breed a dog with six legs that would be great for agilty, but would that be a great Sheltie? (ok, slight exaggeration, but you get my point).

And before someone "knocks my head off" - I know that over the years some breed standards have recreated certain breeds with huge defects (see thread "Pedigree Lines Exposed"). That doesn't mean that you don't breed to standard, but that you re-examine the standard.

Sunny - I am so glad that you are not being defensive about some of the advice that you are receiving here. It may be that this girl may not be the one...or even the next one. But if you are serious about pursuing this there are excellent breeders here on the forum who can point you to some lines to consider.
 
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