Club Practice: Do I do the DW?
- Thread starter k9kreationz
- Start date
SheltieChe
Forums Sage
I for one very grateful you started this thread as I am in same boat, very new to agility and we have not competed yet so to speak. I too know how frustrating it could get because someone somewhere teaches this or that and it seems there are as many methods/ ways as trainers out there...
I agree, I want logic and a plan. What I am teaching today, what results I am receiving, what is my next step and why. It seems not too many agility teachers teach you that.
Hopesheltie, thank you very much for clarification, it is exactly what I wanted to hear, it is VERY helpful for me. Teaching contacts seems no different from teaching any other behavior pattern. You need to get dog to understand, generalize and perform reliable just as they do sit or down. Same concept.
Took one of Trkman classes on line, they great! She is very kind and helpful teacher. Trkman long distance class cost about 2 trials worth $$...
I agree, I want logic and a plan. What I am teaching today, what results I am receiving, what is my next step and why. It seems not too many agility teachers teach you that.
Hopesheltie, thank you very much for clarification, it is exactly what I wanted to hear, it is VERY helpful for me. Teaching contacts seems no different from teaching any other behavior pattern. You need to get dog to understand, generalize and perform reliable just as they do sit or down. Same concept.
Took one of Trkman classes on line, they great! She is very kind and helpful teacher. Trkman long distance class cost about 2 trials worth $$...
k9kreationz
Forums Celebrity
Just wanted to clarify. My post wasn't specifically aimed at you. It was just for everyone to read. And in all honesty, I wrote a follow-up to my training basically to say, "nope we're not ready for the DW back to the plank." I wasn't really asking for feedback or what I was doing wrong or right.
Also, I've been getting a lot of "don't do this" type of responses, with nothing more. Telling me not to do something, without telling me what is correct (in their opinion) is basically useless. And well, I admit, I am tired of hearing that stuff.
ITA with all that you're saying. I shouldn't have asked the board if I should do the DW at practice, because I knew deep in my heart that I wasn't ready at all. But everyone was supportive (as they always are) and I went for it. That's why I said I'm no longer going to post about Koji's DW. The more I post, the more confused and frustrated I get with what I'm doing. For the past 3.5 weeks, I've been training Koji's 2o2o w/o posting here and w/o feedback except what he gives me. It's been tough, but it's also been wonderfully exciting. I think it's been wonderful because no one has been able to say I'm doing things wrong.....I can tell what I'm doing wrong by Koji's actions. That's when I stop, do some research and try something else. It works for us. End of story.
So, don't worry. I'm not ruining Koji's DW. I tried, we failed, we go back to where we were in his training. I'm not pushing him at all anymore. If I'm wary about something, then I know for a fact we're not ready. I got that from this thread. And don't worry, I will succeed (eventually, lol). It's just best if I do it without the boards support or help.
I hope that made sense. I'm not mad at anyone or angry. If anything, I'm angry at myself for being so insecure in how to train. And always having to ask the board for support to do something (or not to do something). Have faith. Next time I post, I'll have video to show you how well we're doing with the DW!!! I would hope by that time, we'll see some QQ's because he's hitting his contacts every time! Granted, that may be in a year. LOL
Toffee's Mom
Forums Sage
awww, sorry to hear your frustration, but that made total sense, Cheryl. I am glad you're doing your own thing.
I am so glad I have two instructors whom I trust wholeheartedly, one of them now a close friend, that is why I haven't trained contacts at all, other than on a board lol
As much as it sucks, when I hear all of your dogs who are running over dogwalks and a-frames and teeters for a year and I haven't even been on one... lol
But cuz I trust both of my Instructors to know what is best for me and my dog for the long haul; I may make faces at them and make them explain it to me AGAIN heheeheheh, but I know that ultimately they are right hahaahah. I wish you would find such amazing people as well to train with you and Koji and have a lot of fun with one another
Of course I am not all that ambitious or competitive, we joke around and I say my training solution will be to get another dog ! (JUST kidding, lol)
I am so glad I have two instructors whom I trust wholeheartedly, one of them now a close friend, that is why I haven't trained contacts at all, other than on a board lol
As much as it sucks, when I hear all of your dogs who are running over dogwalks and a-frames and teeters for a year and I haven't even been on one... lol
But cuz I trust both of my Instructors to know what is best for me and my dog for the long haul; I may make faces at them and make them explain it to me AGAIN heheeheheh, but I know that ultimately they are right hahaahah. I wish you would find such amazing people as well to train with you and Koji and have a lot of fun with one another
Of course I am not all that ambitious or competitive, we joke around and I say my training solution will be to get another dog ! (JUST kidding, lol)
Justicemom
Forums Celebrity
I made alot of mistakes with Ember and pushed her too fast on contacts. As a result I got a dog who wouldn't do them for 3 years! Her contacts still are not good(she thinks the teeter is evil) but frankly if I waited until she did them the way I would like her to do them ,she would likely be dead before we trialed. As it was I waited 5 yrs. If I have it to do over again things would have been done so different. Diva was trained totally different and my next pup will be trained different still.
IMO better to go slow and get it right Irene.
CHeryl, I have had the same frustration in obedience lots of opinions on how it should be done, most of it aimed at Ember. My friends who saw me struggling with her as a pup. Well meaning all of them but Ember does not go by the books and is not normal. Never has been ,never will be. Luckily I had a great instructor who thought outside the box and once we figured her out, off she went.
Really you and your instructor are there and can see what is working for you and Koji. You can ask questions but you still must go with your gut. Each dog is different. YOu will get there I know it and I look forward to seeing Koji do a great DW.
k9kreationz
Forums Celebrity
awww, sorry to hear your frustration, but that made total sense, Cheryl. I am glad you're doing your own thing.
I am so glad I have two instructors whom I trust wholeheartedly, one of them now a close friend, that is why I haven't trained contacts at all, other than on a board lol
As much as it sucks, when I hear all of your dogs who are running over dogwalks and a-frames and teeters for a year and I haven't even been on one... lol
But cuz I trust both of my Instructors to know what is best for me and my dog for the long haul; I may make faces at them and make them explain it to me AGAIN heheeheheh, but I know that ultimately they are right hahaahah. I wish you would find such amazing people as well to train with you and Koji and have a lot of fun with one another
Hindsight is always 20/20 and I know I moved into trialing WAY too soon. But, also, back then, Koji had a great running contact. Then he got confident, speed, and those running contacts went flying out the window. I really had no one work with me at the time. I think if I had what you do, they would've talked me into stopping and going back to work on the contacts. But I didn't.
I'm sure, with my next agility dog, they will have their contacts down pat before I ever trial.
I think what you're doing is great. The best thing for you and your dog, especially in the long run.
k9kreationz
Forums Celebrity
I know I definitely pushed Koji too fast in the beginning. But I didn't know better. And since I did tell my trainer I was doing this ALL for fun and nothing else, she didn't care too much either. Whoops on both our parts. My old trainers were great in that they helped me get past some HUGE walls, um, like Koji and the tunnel, and the 16" jump height, his weaves, etc. Unfortunately, contacts were the last thing we worked on and we rarely did them.
I don't think Koji is too different, but he's "difficult" in that he can shut down easily, get scared of things, but he also learns super fast, and can be hard-headed. Both good and bad. It's just me learning to balance and find that right combination of training. Kinda like what you did with Ember.
SheltieChe
Forums Sage
awww, sorry to hear your frustration, but that made total sense, Cheryl. I am glad you're doing your own thing.
I am so glad I have two instructors whom I trust wholeheartedly, one of them now a close friend, that is why I haven't trained contacts at all, other than on a board lol
As much as it sucks, when I hear all of your dogs who are running over dogwalks and a-frames and teeters for a year and I haven't even been on one... lol
But cuz I trust both of my Instructors to know what is best for me and my dog for the long haul; I may make faces at them and make them explain it to me AGAIN heheeheheh, but I know that ultimately they are right hahaahah. I wish you would find such amazing people as well to train with you and Koji and have a lot of fun with one another
hmm, this is interesting. With Leo at 14 months we are doing low Frame, low DW and teeter. My criteria for now is to run full speed, accuracy i.e. correct entrance and exit and not jumping off. I am not training any contacts but we do obstacles. I am teaching travel board and stairs separately. On teeter I have to do 4 on with him as he fly off competition height if he runs at full speed to the end so he has to ride down somewhere 3/4 along the length.
What is reasoning behind not doing them at all? Just curious.
Toffee's Mom
Forums Sage
Until we have reliable 2o2o and have it labeled by doing them on the steps or the board, which I don't have just yet, I am not making him do the full contacts on obstacles, my Instructors BC had not done a full obstacle contact until just before he was ready to trial... because once he understands the behaviour he will have so much value in the 2o2o position he will push forward to it, that will create drive but then I won't end up inadvertently training something I'm going to have to untrain later... Or that is part of how I understand why they tell me NOT to do it, LOL. Like Cheryl I would also be ok with a running contact at first, but as Toffee increases his confidence and speed, I know he would not hit his contacts down the road.
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HopeShelties
Forums Enthusiast
The thing I think gets most people into trouble with running contacts is that they see their dog just hitting the contact while running and call it stunning contact. A running contact is still a trained behavior, and must be taught and proofed as much, if not more than a 2o2o.
Because of that, a lot of dogs just hit contacts by accident... Their stride just happens to carry them there. The dog does not truly understand that they are supposed to extend and run all of the way through the contact.
Because of that, a lot of dogs just hit contacts by accident... Their stride just happens to carry them there. The dog does not truly understand that they are supposed to extend and run all of the way through the contact.