color questions

[spazzydog]

The males I'm looking at are purebred (no papers)my female as well.So AKC sanctioned shows are out.I'll be doing agility with my female,I've done the basics myself and will be enrolling in the fall session with the local training club.only thing not doing well yet is the weaves.I'm hoping to do agility with the boy as well.
As for breeding not positive.....I refuse to be a back yard breeder(though that is ultimately where it would take place as i'm not a kennel operation.)My dogs are members of my family and have a 1/2 acre fenced yard to play in,and another 5 acres non dog containing when i'm out in the fields with the horses.
I breed paint horses as well so know the importance of them bettering a breed.Though no papers is major strike rt off.
I've had many requests for puppies out of my female.From people in love with her personality and manors,These people are looking for companion animals only.Though I still would not just breed for those reasons.I would want to see how they both do in agility and obedience classes that don't require papers.As well as how he matures flaws wise.
I'm hoping this isnt where this thread turns ugly as most people horse and dog world believe only champions should breed.I believe that all people can't afford the time and money it takes to get them there and the fact that there isn't a ch in front of a dogs name will make them any less loved.
That being said I'd be getting a male raising him to see how he performs,looks etc and if not suitable off come the knackers,I will not breed for the sake of breeding.

 

[BarbV]

I'm hoping this isnt where this thread turns ugly as most people horse and dog world believe only champions should breed.I believe that all people can't afford the time and money it takes to get them there and the fact that there isn't a ch in front of a dogs name will make them any less loved.
That being said I'd be getting a male raising him to see how he performs,looks etc and if not suitable off come the knackers,I will not breed for the sake of breeding.

Well, I guess I'll be first to jump into the fray!

I don't think you have to breed only champions but I do think to ensure the sustainability of your breeding line, the dogs should both be registered, so that the pups in turn can be registered, and so on. By breeding non-registered pups, even if they have great attributes and the best of diligence, you really can't know anymore if its a purebred Sheltie!!!!!! In fact, you can't honestly even call the pup a Sheltie anymore, in my purest opinion, because it could have a trace of something else in its gene pool! (Ok, I'm ducking for cover now!!!! )

Now, if you wanted to breed for agility and not for breed, that's a whole different matter, and I have no issues with that.

I'm just throwing this out there for consideration. I've had a dull week. This should spice things up!

 

[spazzydog]

lol poop disturber.....I know my 2 are purebred I know the owner of both the sire and dam of the male pup.I would be breeding for agility if i bred,not for breed but i believe in breeding good specimines of the breed none the less.I'm not the person to breed anything,otherwise the pomerian x sheltie pups coulda been in my yard around where i live they woulda sold for about $550 each and sadly they would have sold easily. So if i were just in it to make money......and as i said b4 I'm not buying to breed at this point. Hmm maybe i shouldn't have answered that breeding question.....I've probably turned a board against me,so much for sharing his pics as he grows up.

 

[Ania]

Ania, Chinook is sable-merle (cute ) and this pup may be too.
Rustiness is rustiness - this is quite diffrenece than tans (eg. tans on tri or pure blue-merles).

Hi Anna - actually, Chinook is a blue merle! His sire was a blue merle and dam is a tri. The grandparents and great grandparents are not sables either! I know, I've had many breeders look at him. His colour is unique to say the least, but he is a blue merle. There is not much sable in his pedigree at all. He is just different.

 

[Lahree]

I LOVE that merle!! What a darling! Good luck on your choice!

 

[BarbV]

lol poop disturber.....I know my 2 are purebred I know the owner of both the sire and dam of the male pup.I would be breeding for agility if i bred,not for breed but i believe in breeding good specimines of the breed none the less.I'm not the person to breed anything,otherwise the pomerian x sheltie pups coulda been in my yard around where i live they woulda sold for about $550 each and sadly they would have sold easily. So if i were just in it to make money......and as i said b4 I'm not buying to breed at this point. Hmm maybe i shouldn't have answered that breeding question.....I've probably turned a board against me,so much for sharing his pics as he grows up.

I think we are actually in violent agreement here!

You are totally correct that a pom/sheltie mix would bring in some bucks as these are designer dogs.

And no - you have not turned the forum against you. You raise some very ethical questions which I kinda zeroed on....what makes a breed?

To restate in a slightly different way: Is a Sheltie only a Sheltie if you can guarantee the pedigree. If so, that means registration. When does a Sheltie no longer become a Sheltie and becomes a mutt (i.e. if you do don't have registration) That is the question.

Still waiting on someone to bite on this thread!

 

[Calliesmom]

To restate in a slightly different way: Is a Sheltie only a Sheltie if you can guarantee the pedigree. If so, that means registration. When does a Sheltie no longer become a Sheltie and becomes a mutt (i.e. if you do don't have registration) That is the question.

Still waiting on someone to bite on this thread!

ok- so Callie came from a sheltie rescue and I know nothing of her history/pedigree. She is registered now with AKC through their ILP/PAL program as a sheltie (so we can compete in rally). looks like a sheltie/acts like a sheltie= sheltie

But if you want to breed then you would need pedigrees to know about health and other issues to breed good puppies.

still probably not as exciting as you were hoping

 

[BarbV]

ok- so Callie came from a sheltie rescue and I know nothing of her history/pedigree. She is registered now with AKC through their ILP/PAL program as a sheltie (so we can compete in rally). looks like a sheltie/acts like a sheltie= sheltie

But if you want to breed then you would need pedigrees to know about health and other issues to breed good puppies.

still probably not as exciting as you were hoping

I think AKC is a grey area in terms of registration. But I don't know enough about AKC to comment.

p.s. thanks for trying to keep the thread alive!

 

[Aztec]

Aztec is not registered. His breeder uses one of those free type 'registrations' that keeps track of the pedigrees and breeds, but isn't really worth anything.

That said - I think Aztec's breeder is one of the best I could have gotten a dog from. He takes wonderful care of all his dogs, raises then all in home, trains them. I would not hesitate getting another dog from him. Aztec is very healthy, good temperment...and although oversized both his parents were well in the AKC standard.

I do not think you should breed, unless you really are devoted to raising good dogs. AKC papers and a crappy breeder is much worse in my book than a breeder that spends time and love on unregistered dogs! Of course, you ultimately should look for a good breeder + AKC papers...You need to look at the individual dogs. Many puppymills have AKC dogs.

 

[clancyh8sabby]

Jumping in from the peanut gallery!! LOL

Just some things to consider and think about before you take on breeding your dogs...

1.) Testing for genetic things like hips, eyes that WB desease ( I prolly got that wrong and I was to lazy to look it up )

2.) Checking back in the pedigree for genetic problems and or strengths and weaknesses.

3.) What is it about your dogs that make you think they would produce good off spring?

4.) Have you studied the breed standard and do your dogs measure up?

5.) You say you would be breeding for agility...are your dogs showing promise there? Do you know what makes a good agility dog and how to breed to get you there?

6.) When Momma is PG..do you know what she needs to stay healthy? Is there a special diet for PG dogs? Vitamins? Vet checks?

7.) When Momma's big time comes..do you know how to handle it if she gets into trouble with getting babies out? I've heard horror stories, thats why I ask...

8.) Do you know how to help babies when born? sucking stuff out of noses and eyes ... taking off the dew claws?

9.) doG forbid..but what if something happens and you have to feed babies with a syringe or bottle?

10.) Can you handle all the Vet. bills? Even if all goes according to plan...theres Vet. bills. For Momma and then for babies..vacs..etc.

11.) Would you be lining up families for puppies before hand?

12.) What if you can't find homes for all of them?? Are you prepared to keep a extra one or two around??

13.) Do you have the time or know how to socialize them and get them ready for their new families?

14.) Why would a person thats into agility want to get one of your dogs? They can't compete without papers in AKC.

Ok..I'm not a breeder or do I want to be!! These are just things off the top of my head that one might or should think about. Not saying you haven't...just putting it out there!!

woofs

Julie
Clancy & Abby